Ani DiFranco joins Jill Riley from The Current to talk about the making of her new record, 'Revolutionary Love,' as well as her recent memoir 'No Walls and the Recurring Dream'. Check out the full interview above, and a transcript of the conversation below.

Interview Transcription

Edited for clarity and length.

JILL RILEY: I'm very pleased to be joined by a guest checking in who has a memoir out, a new record that came out this year, and an upcoming show at First Avenue. I'm with singer-songwriter, activist, poet, writer, icon--Ani DiFranco. Hi, how are you?

ANI DIFRANCO: Hi, Jill. I'm good. I'm good. How are you?

I'm doing all right.

Two dimensional, like everybody these days.

On one hand, I'm grateful that the technology exists that we can connect in this way, since we haven't had anyone able to come into our building, into our studio for like a year and a half. So this has been a great way to stay connected. But on the other hand, I'm really missing that face to face, in the same airspace kind of connection with people. But it gives me a lot of hope that so many artists are announcing shows, and First Avenue's mainroom is starting to be booked.

It was really cool to get the word that you're coming back to town. So I know we have a lot to cover, we'll talk about your return to First Avenue. It was I think, two years ago this month that my colleague Jay Gabler covered your book for Rock and Roll Book Club. I was thinking about that, and so it's your memoir, 'No Walls and the Recurring Dream,' that memoir came out two years ago. I wonder if we could just touch on it because I know that you talk about some folks that we hold very dear in Minnesota. You're a songwriter, writer, poet--but what was it like to write your story? To actually sit down and write a memoir?

Well, I timed it a little wrong. I worked for two years on the book, and then the pandemic hit, and I had to stay home for--you know, ditch my normal touring job, that would have been better timing, but it was crazy, you know? But sort of cool to have a very different kind of writing challenge in my life after hundreds and hundreds of songs and poems and such. I was still working and touring so I had my laptop attached to me and a bunch of little thumb drives with different versions of this book as it evolved while I lived my life. I certainly didn't have a cabin in the woods to go to to write my little novel. It just had to happen in between gigs, and jobs and kids and all the rest, you know?

Yeah, so the memoir--you really start from when you were growing up, I mean, up till the age of 30. I assume you did that because there is more of the story to be told, but I'm always impressed when I read a memoir or some kind of biography--the amount of detail that can be recalled because maybe it's just me, not that I'm going to sit down and write a memoir anytime soon, but to sort of recall and revisit those times. Is that a challenge for you? Or were those things--once you got into it, were they kind of coming back to you easily?

Super challenging, super challenging. I felt exactly like you when after I agreed to do it, I met this hot publisher lady, and she said, "You can do this!" And I said, "Right, sure. Yeah, let's go." And then I sat down, and I panicked, because I don't remember anything. I don't remember any more than any of us, and I thought I just--most of the first year was, "I can't do this. I can't do this." But I guess I'm sort of living proof that if you sit there long enough, and you stare into space deep enough, you will find one thing and then you will find another thing and then you put them next to each other and then you go, "Oh, no, wait, wait, wait, that thing came before that thing. Oh, no, wait, I didn't know that person--how did it?" And slowly but surely, you can walk yourself back to a time that's all but forgotten to your daily conscious mind.

Were there any things in particular that helped you reconnect with your past, whether it be a photo or a song or even as I was preparing for this interview, I started thinking about this guy that I worked with at a pizza shop over 20 years ago, it was like the guy that played me your music for the first time as we were like closing up the pizza joint, I started thinking about that person. And suddenly all these memories were opening up. Were there any sort of like, I don't know if you did any journaling, or if there was any kind of tools that were helpful there?

You know, not really. I thought at the onset, again, I thought that's what I would do. I thought I have to call up or maybe drive and go see everybody. All the important people along the way that are still with me, and interview them and write and just get all the memory and information out of other people's heads out of other sources. I thought, "Okay, wait my journals--and do I read interviews? Or how am I going to get back there?" But again, in the end, I didn't do any of that really. I mean, I consulted some written stuff from--but really, it was about going inward, and it was a long arduous process. The story that I needed to tell was deep, deep in me, not in anybody else really.

Well, the book is called No Walls and the Recurring Dream--Ani DiFranco's memoir. So if you haven't picked it up yet, it is out there. It is available. You also put out a new album called Revolutionary Love. Before we jump into it--listening to the record, it's got such a great groove to it. It really--to tell you the truth, it made me feel really relaxed and like I could kind of just breathe while I was listening to it. What does that mean to you? Where does that come from? Just the term Revolutionary Love?

Well, first of all, I'm so happy that that's how the album made you feel. That's what I was hoping for was, you know, I've had a lifetime of activism, and political songs and such. I can't not be that. I can't not do that, or care about my society, or leave politics out of what I express or think or care about. But I just wanted this record to help sort of quiet the noise, you know? Not to ignore it, not to deny it, but to--I don't know, be somehow soothing. That we can get through this, we can get through this together, not by denying or skirting our responsibility as citizens, as people, as community members, as brothers and sisters, but just a feeling of possibility and peace. So, I'm really glad.

Revolutionary Love is something I'm trying to achieve. I think I've been trying all along in the songs and in my work and in my life, but I had a friend come along in recent years named Valerie Kaur, and she's an activist, a civil rights crusader, lawyer, author--I mean, she just wrote a book herself. It's called 'See No Stranger: A Memoir and Manifesto of Revolutionary Love'. And Valerie, just the way she articulates it, and breaks it down, revolutionary love--what is it? How do you do it on a daily basis--was very helpful to me. You need somebody to come along and give you the words--the language that you need to know your own thoughts, your own path, your own context in this world. So Valerie sort of did that for me and this song reflects her words, her ideas around revolutionary love, and I just felt like it speaks so much--that song and the language that she gave me, and it speaks so much to my mission in general, that it became the title of the record and my kind of mantra of late.

Yeah, it feels like a very hopeful idea. I mean, there has been--division in this country since the birth of the United States, right? But in recent years, there are political divides. There are divides on women's issues and in racial justice, and now I just feel like we're at we're at this place, that it's really amplified of this divide having to do with with this pandemic, whereas, I remember the first few months, there was really this, "We're in this together," and I really felt that, and now I feel like both sides are having a hard time coming together and maybe having compassion or even like struggling with empathy for each other. To be so divided over over the over the, you know, idea of vaccination--it's fascinating to watch but frustrating to be a part of, and it's kind of easy to lose that idea of hope.

Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly how I feel, and why I wanted so much for this new record to make you feel hope, or peace, or possibility as opposed to just being constantly overwhelmed by the doom, you know? The doom machine. We're just being encouraged at every turn, by many people in power--by bots, and trolls, and who knows what foreign actors or domestic actors to close to each other, to fight each other. So this idea of revolutionary love, it begins with the idea of staying open to even your opponent, okay? So this is not like a sack of candy, joy and hugging, and Kumbaya. This is revolution, but with love and compassion as its motivator, you know? The first task becomes to remain curious, I.E. open towards your opponent, keep wondering about them--that in itself is an act of strength, it's a show of respect and love, to continue to ask questions and try to understand your opponent. Right there, you've thwarted what all of these messages are telling you to do, which is to lock down, to assume, and judge and close yourself off. So you start there.

Another thing that Valerie illuminated is a way to engage with your opponents is to focus as much as you can. This is, of course, only done in community and not by everybody, there are different roles that people play, so, if you are actively being hurt or oppressed this is not your job at this given time, this is somebody else's job. But the job then becomes to look for the wound in your opponent, try that on as a strategy instead of taking on what seems to be very misguided words or actions. Look through them for the wound in that person that is driving those misguided actions and words, and try to somehow in the process tend to that wound, again, showing compassion and staying open towards--and I'm talking about your opponents, then, of course, you have to consider yourself and your allies, your community members. So these are just things that I'm not sure if I'll ever achieve, but it's the constant striving towards this kind of revolution, a revolution that's inclusive, that is love-based.

I'm talking with Ani DiFranco here on The Current--we're talking about Ani's new record, Revolutionary Love. A couple of familiar names popped up when I was getting a little backstory on your album, one of them being Brad Cook from Megafaun and a collective that we know well here in Minnesota, Gayngs--that whole world of the Justin Vernon/Bon Iver, I like to call the Eau Claire world. But it was cool to see that he was involved in the making of your record. I just love his brother Phil Cook as well--sitting in a room with that guy is like, I've had my day turned around by interviewing that guy--that positivity, and that whole kind of collective of like minded individuals. How did you meet Brad Cook and what was his involvement in the making of this record?

Yeah, I went to the Iver Fest a couple of years ago, and I met--I had already met a few of the Eau Claire mafia, and then I met a bunch more. Brad and I met face to face at that gathering finally, so I enlisted him to help me make this new record. He helped put the band together including his brother, as you say, Phil just blew my mind. I mean, all of the musicians were so amazing and brought so much to this record. But Phil in particular, it's awesome that you should point him out specifically because I considered him, after I finished the record, I emailed everybody and thanked them and was sending them copies. And I said, "Phil, you're like, the musical director of this phantom band that just assembled for this record, and then dissipated into the ether." Phil... I don't know, my connection with him when we were recording was just--I think I had the same experience that you do, he just transforms the space.

Well, the record is called Revolutionary Love and Ani DiFranco, we're very excited to see that you'll be coming back to Minneapolis. In fact, just later this month, August 21, and you're no stranger to playing First Avenue, you excited to come back?

I love First Avenue so much, and I love playing music. I am very excited at the idea of going out and seeing people and feeling the energy of all of us together and playing music with my band, my incredible friends. I miss all of that so much. Right now we're just hoping we can follow through with this whole tour, we're going to try to do it in the most conscious way. So we're really having a lot of conversations about what is the right way to put on a show in this moment, and try to do it so that everybody's safe, and we can get a little bit of that juice from each other to keep going.

Yeah, and I don't know what various venues are planning to do across the country quite yet. But First Avenue, they put this policy in place with all the venues that they run in the Twin Cities, but you know, pertaining to the main room, they want people to show that they've been vaccinated or proof of a negative COVID test something like 72 hours before the show. So they're really as a venue trying to make sure that it's a safe space for people to come in and enjoy a show.

There may be a little bit of rigmarole to get in the door--yeah, vaccination card, masking, there might be temperature checks, but I'm not sure exactly what protocol is going to be in place. So there'll be a little bit of rigamarole, but I plan to make it worth it.

Well, your fans are waiting for you. It's really exciting. I saw that $1 from each ticket goes to Roots Of Music. Can you can you just tell me what that is?

Yes, absolutely. Roots Of Music is a free music school in New Orleans for underprivileged kids. It's just this amazing program that takes kids that have so very little, and it teaches them the language of music, and they become part of the Roots Of Music Marching Crusaders band, marching band, and they also get academic tutoring every day after school, they get a hot meal every day after school. So it's a really holistic program that really uplifts kids in New Orleans.

Wow, that's great. It's just like the connection to First Avenue and even thinking about the connection that you had to Prince and you guys were like minded in a number of ways and Prince was so big on supporting music in schools. I think there was a lot of mutual respect going on there, especially with the way that you've handled your career that, you know, you started your label so many years ago, and you were able to have all this creative freedom and that's all Prince ever wanted. Was that something that you guys really connected over?

Yes, absolutely. That's where our connection was born. Boy, the respect from me to him is just endless. He's a hero of mine forever and I was just so blessed to have hit his radar and to have connected over that, and some other things. He was a startling, startling creature as we know and dearly missed. But yeah, First Avenue makes me think of him as well. Absolutely.

Well we look forward to welcoming you back in the Twin Cities, First Avenue August 21. The record is called Revolutionary Love. Ani DiFranco, appreciate your time. Thanks for checking in.

Likewise, thank you.

External Link

Ani DiFranco - official site

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