Following the release of their 2022 record 'Things Are Great,' Band of Horses' Ben Bridwell joined The Current's Mary Lucia to talk about the ghosts of Ryman Auditorium, putting together the new record, and their upcoming North American tour with The Black Keys.

Interview Transcript

Edited for clarity and length.

MARY LUCIA: Ben, hi! How are you? This is the thought I woke up with this morning that I thought I would roll by you because I watch a lot of old music documentaries, and fairly random things that it was of a time when labels would kind of shoehorn their artists into touring together. It was just, "Well, you know, you're on the same label. I mean it makes sense. Just put you out on the road." I can only imagine that's changed, perhaps throughout the years. And I wondered, you know, even with a cool label, like Sub Pop, I mean, is that still a traditional thing? Where it's like, you got to go out with a labelmate, or do you ever get to say, "You know who I really want on this tour?"

Wow. Cool question. Okay. I can tell you Iron and Wine certainly got shoehorned into taking us out on tour, when we were both on SubPop before we like really popped off. Since then, I have not found that to be the case. It's has been more management based. It kind of seems like they're doing favors for other, you know--because we've got so and so artists supporting that artists, can you do us a favor? Yeah, paying Peter to buy Paul--I'm not sure how that works?

Yeah, it's kind of like getting set up on a blind date or something. No say in it at all. It's like, “Wait, what?”

There's times where it's like, "Your friends, if they want to come with you, well, they gotta take like 200 bucks, and basically starve to death." And I'm like, how can I look my friends in the eye out on tour if they can't afford to even sleep somewhere?

God. Well, with this new record, which had its obstacles of getting into retail and what--was there a shortage in mailers? What was the actual holdup for the record release?

You know, I could probably do a better job of investigating exactly what happened with the vinyl shortage. But I do know the supply chain stuff added to a vinyl plant slowing down, and it might be a lack of vinyl plants in themselves. I think we're all kind of at the mercy of how busy they are.

Yeah, I think I just saw something in the news this morning, Jack White saying more people need to press their own records, distribute their own records, which again, is always a wonderful DIY way to do things. But not everyone is Jack White.

Exactly. I don't have that kind of money. I can tell you that.

One of the things that--I don't know if I talked to you ever, I'm sure you've been here at The Current several times.

Yes. Absolutely.

One of the things that always struck me was the record that you guys made at the Ryman, which I just wonder if walking onto that stage, which you know, quite literally is a church, if you felt the sense of just ghosts of music past in there.

Oh, my goodness. You know, I can tell you, having had the pleasure of playing there a couple times now. Maybe a handful if I'm very lucky. So it's the backstage where I really like--they have these, you know, old posters from Patsy Cline and George Jones, and things like that where--and Hank Williams, you absolutely feel the ghosts, whether they're real or not. Your subconscious wants to feel them. You want to feel the history seeping into your bones in a way? I'm not sure how much of its real, how much of it is also like yourself getting worked up, and a bit scared about stepping on hallowed ground? But for me, it's always felt very real.

Hank Williams was viewed in his casket at the Ryman, which is--

God.

--bananas. But you know, maybe a different time it--I don't know, that's always struck me whenever you see documentary films of anybody, like politicians and leaders and things like that, it's always struck me as a peculiar thing that it's this public domain of like, "Yeah, I got a ticket to go walk past the casket." It's like, what?! Crazy.

Yeah. My casket, I can't wait to go on tour with my casket, we're gonna hit the 7th St Entry. We're gonna--

Fill it with ice and stick some beers in it.

Yeah, we're not gonna be able to play the big room, we're gonna play the Entry for my death. Well,

Well I got to know too, though, everybody has been just kind of beaten down in one sense or another over the last two years of events. Some people have come out with some renewed sense of something--whatever that may be. Maybe it's not even related to the music you make. What did you come out of it with--maybe an extra skill set, an extra interest level in?

I came out with an extra dependent. I have a new dog. So I got my fifth daughter basically. But other than that, I mean, my trip during this whole thing was a bit of a drag. And I'm still trying to shake it off. So if anything, I might have come out with a bit of PTSD from like divorce and stuff.

Right, right. I mean, that's real. I don't think anybody can really question the validity of that.

Right.

I think people too, who maybe weren't the most terribly--well, I guess it works conversely, people who were really, really sociable, probably suffered in a way. And even those that would say, I'm an introvert by nature, it's kind of like, well, you know, you can only take that really, so far. But yeah, just the nature of music, the nature of live music, I mean, all of that, even if you consider yourself introverted you've missed out on putting these songs, these performances in front of these faces and these ears. And that's just got to feel a little strange.

It's very strange. It's weird coming from a place where I didn't exactly mean to become like a singer person. So to miss the act of the physical exertion of actually singing loud, and sweating like that, to know that I actually like it? Or that I need it to survive? That is a bit surprising. Not to mention, you know, how many people have gone through, you know, just financial despair during this. It's just so tough to see, and to feel, honestly, I went through that as well, where it's just like, we're the most desperate when when we're financially destitute. So you really start to feel for people of all walks of life that ever have to go through that.

Yeah, and there's really nothing to prepare you. But I do also think that maybe creative people have a leg up in the sense that you just have to start reimagining how you would normally do something that is normally just something like falling off a cliff, it's like, but now you have to kind of rethink it. And there's never really anything--I'm not a big silver linings kind of person, this is me just grasping at anything positive that comes out of this, but it's like, maybe in some way it made us have to think a little more creatively, a little just less traditionally. I mean, yeah, lots of bands were making records and half the band was across the country and throwing stuff in a Dropbox on their computer. And I mean, that's not ideal for everybody, but people made it work.

Yeah, I think there's a million stories. There's billions of stories, I'm sure all over the world of people in all their lines of work, or creative endeavors that were interrupted or had to be reimagined. Mine was not very fruitful, honestly.

Did you ever have a moment where you started thinking, "What is my plan B?"

I choose not to have a plan B, because I knew this record was good. Honestly.

That is great. I mean, Plan B's can be very desperate and frightening. But you knew this record was good. And then it was a major matter of time, because normally, you record, it's pressed, it's released, you got your tour. And obviously, that just couldn't happen this way. So where are you guys are now--are you booking tours in like smaller increments? And then kind of a wait and see attitude? Or are you just going, "Screw it, we're just going to make a huge summer tour."

We've had to be on our heels a bit, obviously. So we've rescheduled a European tour that had to get postponed. That tour has been pushed to the fall for Europe. But before that, we are supporting The Black Keys on a North American tour. We have some dates here and there, you know, like smaller festival kind of things. We're going to Mexico for a second. Stuff like that, where we can kind of pop in and out. But these are sustained tours in Europe and the one with The Black Keys, which still feels like one of those like, "Oh my god, is this really gonna happen?" kind of thing.

Does it feel that way because of your admiration for their music and audience?

No, it's just like, none of us can believe anything's going to happen at all.

I know. I know. It's kind of a wait and see. I'll believe it when I see it kind of thing.

That's no knock on their music to like, I do respect them. But it's more just, Iyou'll believe it when you see it kind of thing sometimes.

Who watches your dogs when you're gone?

My friend Jenna. She's here somewhere back there.

Good. And your most recent rescue was the beauty that was in the shot earlier?

Yes, that's Lucille.

Did your dog choose you? Or did you choose your dog?

My kids chose for me to have that dog. They thought I was lonely 'cause I was living by myself. Like Daddy needs a dog. And this neighbor's got these puppies. "Dad, you gotta get a dog." So I'm like, okay, I'll get a dog. But now, half of them are like, "I don't want the dog near me." It's like, y'all wanted the dog. But I love that dog. And she's probably saved me more than I saved her.

Hell yes. That's I think that's true, just down the line with rescues. There's a lot of people who took in a few four legged friends during the pandemic in lockdown. And it makes sense. You know, it does make sense, because at a time when everything is completely upside down, if you know, I mean--an animal's a pretty sure thing. It's unconditional love. 24/7.

Indeed, indeed, even if it's like hard work at times, like, yeah, loneliness is a real thing. And I feel like that dog really helped me just stay away from too dark of loneliness.

That is absolutely true. I've heard people say, not to get too crazy, but I mean, people who've struggled with drugs, and they said, "You know, I actually was going to use drugs. And I looked at my dog. And I thought, I'm not gonna do this in front of you." I don't believe in God, I believe in dog because everybody thinks their dog is the best and nobodies wrong. I practically tear up seeing a dog with his head out of a car window. So you have this, this idea of a tour, which you're sort of feeling like, "Yeah, we'll believe that when we see it," but what is the most immediate thing you have to prepare for right now?

That's a great question. No, we just got done with some TV. So thank God, that's out of my system for a second. I used to think, you know, it doesn't matter if you do good. It doesn't matter if you do bad, no one's really going to care that much. I understand the marketing aspect of it. I understand what it means as far as visual collateral for the label folks and the publicist and things--I get it. For some reason, it actually like scared me this time. Just doing it last week it really rattled me where it didn't used to for a while there. I'm not sure if I'm just out of practice or what.

What show did you do?

We did the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. And then we did CBS Saturday Morning News, which was three songs. I found myself trying not to vomit during the first verse, on The Tonight Show, like so rattled.

Why do you think it was so different than any other time you've performed on TV? Or have you always wanted to heave when you're on TV?

No, I haven't. To be perfectly honest, I think like social anxiety and stuff really started to pop up in my life around getting divorced and stuff like that. Or maybe it's just like my age. Social anxiety really started to get its grips on me. I think it's mostly that. I'm still bouncing back from emotional upheaval. Either way, I'll now be getting ready for a couple a festival performances, one in North Carolina. Where else are we going? I can't remember right now. There's another one we're doing. And then we're going to Mexico as well for a festival performance. But it's a bit light right now, because we're still kind of in that--we were being cautious not to put too much stuff. In case things fell apart, but it's starting to kick up really soon.

When you are sort of at the height of your anxiety, did good friends, well meaning friends ever tried to throw, "You should really try to meditate," at you.

Oh, God.

And you know how I mean, I'm gonna just assume you feel the way about it I do. There's no quieting the voices in my head when I'm feeling that anxious.

Oh, god, yeah.

God bless the person who can actually get to a place of nothingness. But that ain't me. But I just always think that's something very well meaning people suggest for your anxiety like, "Well, you know, listen, just get quiet with your thoughts." It's like if you knew what my thoughts were, you wouldn't want to be alone in a room with them.

Yeah, what I want is a tranq dark in my neck--

Pretty much!

Give me something that makes me fall asleep so when I wake up it doesn't hurt so bad. How about that?

Yeah, exactly. A little extra sodium pentathol laying around. It's kind of true. Well, I am very excited--do you guys have you do have a Minneapolis, see, I don't have my homework in front of me. I know you have a Minneapolis date.

No, I'm not sure that we do actually. Cause I have friends up there. I used to live up there. Like, I have friends up there. And they're like, "Why no Minneapolis date?"

Are your friends still here?

I have a lot of good friends still up there, yeah

Like who? Tell me.

Okay, Martin Dosh used to be in Andrew Bird's band. My friend Jacob Groom is up there. I have a bunch of people. I mean, God, people that worked at First Ave. I got a bunch of friends up there still and my ex wife, she grew up in Shakopee up there. My ex mother in law lives up there. I have a lot of good friends up there.

Yeah, well, I'm certain when things start rolling out in a way that's--I don't know, I honestly, I feel like there's a part of me that's like, you know, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop and go, "Well, what's the new variant?" but I'll take this whole, "Hey, the mask restrictions are like lightening up," and this and this and always within the back of my mind, like, yeah, and then that'll just come to a screeching halt again. It's sort of hard to be super joyous and spontaneous within this.

Yes, we have. We must remain optimistic and not pessimistic. But you also do it caution because getting your hopes up, obviously, in the past couple of years have been well, a bit devastating for a lot of people.

Yes. Do you watch the news?

Yeah.

Can I ask what news you follow?

Today I was watching the BBC. Yeah, I prefer the BBC over like American news television.

Yeah, I kind of know where you're going with that. At some point to I think, within the last four years of the world's going on, I started to think, are we as humans actually equipped to be able to absorb this much information coming at us at this pace? 24/7. And I thought, No, we are not. And so for a lot of us to feel sort of checked out or guilty or feeling like they're sitting in a place of privilege that they don't have to worry about a bomb falling on their head, or whatever happens to be, it really does boil down to the amount of information coming at it is unnatural, and I don't think anybody could possibly absorb it and be like, super healthy and rad.

God. And you know, during these times, when everyone was locked down, no one could go anywhere. And I did have friends that were just watching way too much news. And, and having to say, like, "Yo, take a break from watching that all damn day, you're just sitting there getting bombarded, not only by commercials, but by this, like, constant dread, the dread of the human existence, you know, like really just beating you over the head, it can't be good for the water in your body." So I had to make a concerted effort to stay away from the news. But now that things have turned--well, the crisis in Ukraine, I do find myself waking up and checking that first to see what's going on. But staying away from American media, cuz I feel like just get a bit more clear course of stream or whatever. But I gotta tell you, even on this record, I talked about that. People losing their families to Fox News and stuff like that, where it's like, "Okay, I can't go there for Christmas no more."

I've had a loss in the family. Yes.

Very much!

It's a real thing, and if you'd lived in Minneapolis, we were the news. So it wasn't even like I could choose not to watch what was happening seven blocks from my house. It was surreal. Is there anything I can say that would make this interview like a lot--

A bit more cheery? You're doing great. I don't mind being deep. I don't mind it being interesting.

I mean, this is how I just talk, I guess. Yeah, I don't know what else—

No, it doesn't have to always be funny. It doesn't always have to be cheery, and doesn't always have to be about damn record. Like, you know what I'm saying? We can just talk!

Yes! Okay, do you spell follow any sports teams?

Very much. I got these two tattoos. My Georgia Bulldogs and my Atlanta Braves. They both won their respective championships. For the first time in my life, the Georgia Bulldogs basically, I was two when they won the first time, or the last time. And so they finally won a national championship, which is, I mean, a dream come true. The fact that the Braves also won a championship is insane. My parents, or my whole family, are Georgia people. I'm born here in South Carolina but we were born with like, you know, like a Georgia onesie or a Braves onesie on. So yes, I follow them way too much maybe.

Did you ever go to a game during the pandemic when they were sort of allowing some people to go?

No.

That just would not have been right either.

No, I didn't go anywhere. I went to the grocery store and back here, basically.

Did you get your dog food delivered?

No, I went and got it. But I mean--

Chewy.com is actually good.

Yeah. Honestly, I was broke. I didn't want to pay the extra $15 service charge for that stuff. I'm still broke and I ain't doing that.

I hear you. Well, this is all very--I'll tell you what the most positive part of all this interview is, Ben is that you have not even considered the plan B because your competence in this record, the time and energy and emotion and guts and PTSD that goes into writing songs for a record that's very personal, is one of the most positive things I can think of.

Thank you. Thank you. Okay, I guess it's not all a loss, I do think there's a lot to gain from it. And especially if other people get to take those stories and incorporate that into their own lives, whether it be positive or negative to lean in or lean out.

Absolutely. Well, Ben, I'm not going to keep you I got to go do some crap. But thank you very much for chatting and keeping it real with me because I've done this long enough where there are some days where it's like, I cannot. Yeah, I can't walk in here and start going, "The production--

"So tell me about your--," exactly.

"Track 2 had a---," yeah.

So boring sometimes I'm sure and honestly, I prefer like a real chat about real stuff over just the same question. So thank you so much. I needed that to wake me up.

Right on. Thank you, Ben. Have a great day.

You have a great day. I'll talk to y'all soon.

External Links

Band of Horses - official website

Credits

Guest - Ben Bridwell
Host - Mary Lucia
Producer - Derrick Stevens, Jesse Wiza
Technical Director - Peter Ecklund