Craig Finn is fascinated by the creative process, including the experiences, stories and memories that inform songwriting. Finn has certainly written many songs — he’s released nine studio albums with his band the Hold Steady as well as another five solo releases — and now he’s branched out into the podcast world where he can talk to other creative people about their memories and stories and what inspires them. And if that’s not enough, Finn has been busy taking the show on the road with his “This Is What It Looks Like: Solo Songs and Stories" tour, which stops at the Fitzgerald Theater in St. Paul on Saturday, Nov. 16.

Despite his busy schedule, Finn visited The Current studio to play a solo acoustic set (including one unreleased song) and to talk with Jill Riley about all of his ongoing projects. And because Finn is originally from the Twin Cities but has lived in New York for more than two decades, he spills the tea on the culinary item he thinks Minneapolis will always do better than New York.

Watch and listen to the performances above, then watch and listen to the interview below. Beneath the video placement, you’ll find a full transcript of the interview.

Interview Transcript

Jill Riley: You're listening to The Current. I'm Jill Riley, and I've got a guest in the studio. He has been the frontman and primary songwriter of the Hold Steady for over 20 years now. Before that, the beloved Minneapolis band, Lifter Puller. He has five solo albums under his belt; the latest, — what, two years ago now — A Legacy of Rentals. He's got a podcast. He's telling stories on the road, not just in the songs, but songs that I think, getting into the storytelling, I think, makes them even more relatable when you can hear the story behind the music. But Craig Finn is here. How you doing?

Craig Finn: I'm good. Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jill Riley: Yeah, of course! So I spent some time listening to your podcast, That's How I Remember It. I like kind of bingeing on a podcast when I have some kind of tasks to do at home. And so I listened to a number of the episodes. Jason Isbell, Billy Bragg, Beth Ditto — I hadn't heard anything about her for a long time, so that was cool that you got to talk to her. But really, I guess the nature of the podcast is it's this connection between creativity and memory. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that more? Because especially when you're telling stories, one, in your songs, but on the road. 

Craig Finn: Yeah. When I made my last record, A Legacy of Rentals, a lot of the songs were about how we remember people when they're gone, and also the idea of sometimes we build sort of stories we tell ourselves on our memories, which may or may not be accurate. So I really was fascinated by that. When I started the podcast, you know, these days, records kind of come and go quickly, or they can, you know, it comes out, and then a new batch of records comes out the next Friday, and you kind of feel like, "Wow, that first week went great." So I said, "What if I just in sort of, to tie it back to the record, had conversations with some friends about this idea of how memory and creativity work together?" I found I really loved it, and now we're on, like, you know, year three of the podcast. And I think one of the things we talk a lot about is these songs as sort of monuments, you know? I mean, you go into a park and you see a statue. It's usually of a general with a sword and a horse. But, you know, a song can often be a monument to someone who, you know, lived maybe a bit of a smaller life, but also deserves to be celebrated, and I like that a lot, and we've talked a lot about that with artists. And also just how our memories affect music, not only that we make, but we listen to. What's a summer album to you? What's a winter album to you? What is this record? What's a song that's been ruined for you? Et cetera.

Jill Riley: Oh, I like that. We should come back around to that. You know, you mentioned, you know, how memory can inform on a creative level, the stories that you tell about people. I'm not a songwriter, but I'm certainly a storyteller on the radio or with family and friends, and I have run into moments where someone in the room will say, "That's not how I remember it." I think that's a really fascinating part about our memories.

Craig Finn: There's a great book called Night of the Gun, it was written by David Carr, who was a Twin Cities-born journalist who then went to New York. He kind of came back to the Twin Cities and did some investigative reporting on an earlier part of his life, and found a lot of what he found didn't match up with his memory, and that he'd sort of changed his story to himself, and that became his identity. And I think that's one of the very fascinating things that we'll try to investigate in the podcast when we can. Of course, as a storyteller, one of my favorite episodes of the podcast was with comedian Alex Edelman, and he kind of said, you know, sometimes you're also, you're up on stage, one of your jobs is to tell a good story. So if you need to take a shortcut, or, you know, bend it around a corner a little bit, that can be OK if you're an entertainer or that kind of thing.

Jill Riley: I've been busted by family members when I've told stories on the radio; like, "I don't remember that one little part." And I went, "Well ... I thought it made it, the story a little bit funnier, so..."

Craig Finn: Absolutely! You know?

Jill Riley: I'm talking with Craig Finn on The Current. So let's talk about this tour, you know, "This Is What It Looks Like: Solo Songs and Stories." You were over in Europe, and now you're going to be touring this show around the U.S.; at the Fitzgerald Theater [on Saturday, Nov. 16] is the St. Paul stop. What was kind of, did this idea of doing this tour kind of come out of what you've been spending —  you've been spending a lot of time really talking about stories, telling stories. I mean, you are a great storyteller in your songs, but then to tell the stories about the stories in the songs.

Craig Finn: Yeah. I mean, I thought it would be a compelling show, because I do like to tell stories, and I think the audience react to them when I do. And you know, I mean, one of the influences on a much grander level was seeing Bruce Springsteen on Broadway do what he did and, you know, kind of create a monologue that had a through line, but also stopped along the way to investigate these songs he's written throughout his career. So I wanted to do something obviously smaller, but something like that. I thought it was a really good format, and I thought that people would be interested in hearing these stories, not only in the songs, but about the songs. And we went over, I've done two rounds of it, one in February and one in September, of the touring in the U.K. and Europe. And it went really well, and people really reacted. So I'm excited to be here in November.

Jill Riley: Yeah, when you saw Bruce Springsteen on Broadway, that's awesome. Were there any stories that he told that were like that you had no idea that that's how maybe the song went, or the story went? Were there times that you were kind of blown away?

Craig Finn: Well, I cried twice.

Jill Riley: OK, well, of course you did! Well, who wouldn't? But I know that you're a huge fan.

Craig Finn: Yeah, and I'm an easy cry, also. But you know what? It struck me that one of the most moving things, and this is, maybe, seems obvious, but I was watching him play, and he played "Born to Run," and I thought, You know what? There was a time that there was no "Born to Run," and then this man conjured it out of thin air. And I'm sure it wasn't, you know, one day or one hour. I'm sure it was over, you know, he wrestled with it for a long time. But he created "Born to Run," which we all know, and is sort of this, you know, anthem in America or around the world. And it was just sort of a testament to creativity and like, how he created something that moved so many people.

Jill Riley: For sure. I'm talking with Craig Finn on The Current. So as far as storytelling goes, you know, I was even just looking back at — you talk about Bruce Springsteen and his ability to, like, create something out of thin air, and then it has this effect on people. I mean, I think about albums, even connecting songs and albums with times in my life.  I mean — what? — 20 years ago, the debut record from the Hold Steady came out, and I was doing college radio, and so I think about that time. Immediately, it's like I can smell the studio at my college radio station. And then Separation Sunday was such a big part of, like, my first year in my first professional job on the radio, which was here at The Current. And then I start reflecting on how much time I spent listening to those records and, like, connecting with the characters. And I mean, that's something that has really been a consistency, I'd say, with your songwriting, is the ability to tell these great stories through characters. Yeah, can you talk about that a little bit, just about like developing the characters? 

Craig Finn: Yeah. I think I always wanted — I think when you start to write songs, you start to write songs that are what you'd want to hear, the music you'd want to hear. And I remember being a little bit frustrated when I was younger, like when I would hear about, you know, something — to bring it back to Bruce Springsteen, he'd talk about the Magic Rat, or some other character, Weak-Kneed Willie. And you'd say, "Well, I want to know more about that person. Can we hear another song about that person?" And so I started to write songs and characters and maybe bring them back a little bit, you know? Like, maybe they'd appear in a few songs. And I found that people really reacted to it, and it was no surprise, because that's what I wanted, and I always assume there's people like me. But I also, you know, I always write fiction. I always still do, and I always thought that songs could do that, could create characters. And of course, it allows you to step outside yourself. And you know, especially in the Hold Steady, I mainly write the words. So when those guys are giving me music, it's always this big music. And if I say, "Well, today I went to the grocery store and the post office," that's not going to make a very good song for this. So, you know, you can kind of go out and create a world, a shadowy world that bigger things happen.

Jill Riley: Yeah, but those details must come from somewhere.

Craig Finn: That's something we talk a lot about in the podcast. And a writer friend of mine said that, you know, you have to get the details from your own life. Even if you're telling a story about robbing a bank, which I've never done, if you put it on a corner you've walked by 4,000 times, maybe that story rings a little more true.

Jill Riley: Yeah, I'm talking with Craig Finn on The Current. Being someone who was born and raised in Minnesota, I have lived in the Twin Cities for almost 20 years now. And I think one of the reasons that as Midwesterners or even Minnesotans, you know, Hold Steady fans or fans of your solo work can connect on a kind of even a deeper level with the music is because we know about the places you're talking about when those details come out from your personal life. I want to talk kind of specifically about the song, "Shamrock," because I think there is a really, quite frankly, a very genius way that you use a location that has changed names to show the passage of time. Because, you know, outside of this region, if you say, "I'm gonna go down to SA to grab a pack of cigarettes or a coffee" or whatever, people would be like, "SA?," but in my mind, I'm thinking, well, it's not called that anymore. And when the song really has its kind of conclusion of the story, you say "Speedway," because that's what it's called now. And I just went, "Ah,! Yes! perfect." I mean, showing that kind of passage of time but then in a way that, you know, there's a certain amount of people who will get that and a certain amount that maybe won't.

Craig Finn: Yeah. I mean, I think that — I'm so glad you caught that, by the way, because that makes me proud that it connected. You know, in the middle of the song, it's SA, and then later Speedway, and that marks a passage of time. I mean, there's some years that go by. And actually, when I was in Europe in September, Kathleen Edwards was opening, and she sang that song with me, and she said, "What's SA?" And so I explained, "Well, that's Super America." But I think that, you know, there is this thing where songs can work on different levels, and there's, like, you know, some part of it's for you, some part of it's for you and a few others, and then some part of it's for everyone. And I think SA — the SA reference, in that case — is for a middle ground of people who grew up here and know what SA is. And if you're doing your job right, then even people in Scandinavia or Japan will say, "I still love that song. I don't exactly know what SA is," but that's if you're doing your job right, but I love those details.

Jill Riley: Yeah, because you could have just said "the convenience store."

Craig Finn: Right!

Jill Riley: Or you could have said "the coroner store" and left it at that. But listening to the song "Shamrock," I don't know if that song is based on — you say you write fiction, but when those details are really nonfiction and they come into play, you know, is "Shamrock" based on...?

Craig Finn: "Shamrock" is based on someone that I know, but not, maybe not, you know, again, you sort of take two stories and you make them into one to make it a better story. And then, you know, you add some details from your own life to populate the room and make it kind of come in more vividly.

Jill Riley: Yeah. And that's, I think, the great thing about writing, like, to characters. For you, you know who it's about. For that person, they know who it's about. But the story is incredibly relatable, because I feel like we all know that person or that couple or those two people.

Craig Finn: Absolutely. It's a type of person, you know, or type of people that you knew, and if all the details don't line up, you still know someone like that.

Jill Riley: Has anyone ever kind of tried to fact-check the details? Or do you worry about that? Do you ever bounce that off of anybody?

Craig Finn: I've had a lot of people say, like, "Did that really happen?" And, you know, I'm saying, "Well, where in the world, does it say it had to happen?" I mean, that's a funny thing, because generators can be held to being confessional, where no one says, "Hey, Quentin Tarantino, you didn't do any karate," you know, or "You didn't do martial arts, you didn't shoot anyone." And what I'm trying to do often is cinematic, you know? Trying to tell a big story.

Jill Riley: Yeah, for sure. I'm talking with Craig Finn. We are talking about specifically, they're one of the songs that you perform today, "Shamrock." You did a couple other songs that I just want to mention, "Jessamine" and "Magic Marker." "Jessamine" from A Legacy of Rentals. All of the songs that you have, how did you kind of narrow it down to, OK, these are, like, the 10 songs that I'm going to tell stories about.

Craig Finn: Well, it was a combination of what sounds best with just me alone, as most of the time I'm alone on stage with this tour. And then also, what do I have the best story about, you know? What matches with the intro, and how can I make the whole show dramatic and plug these songs in? So they have changed a little bit, night to night. But, you know, I kind of have gotten it down to a whole show, a whole monologue and a whole set of music.

Jill Riley: Craig, before you go, you've been living in New York City for 24 years. What is something that you still miss about Minneapolis?

Craig Finn: Well, the people. The sports teams, which I'm still a diehard, a Minnesota sports fan. You know what the culinary thing that I think Minneapolis always does better than New York and always will? Bloody Mary.

Jill Riley: OK.

Craig Finn: I still can get a Bloody Mary better in many places in the Twin Cities than I can in New York. Yeah, I think that might be part of it there. And honestly, it's been a while since, I've sort of given up on Bloody Marys, so maybe New York has caught up. And I, but, like a lot of things, it's like the memory, the conversation about memory, there might be some good memories in that Twin Cities Bloody Mary for me.

Jill Riley: What is it about the Minnesota Bloody Mary? It the — oh, what do you call it? — the little glass of beer, I think, the back, or whatever, the beer back?  Yeah, I don't even know if it's about the flavor or if you like it spicy, or you like more dill in it, or you like the bloodies that are like a meal in a glass. But I think I have more memories attached to the people I was with.

Craig Finn: That's the thing, and that sort of like waking up. If you're going for the Bloody Mary, you also probably had a good night with the people that you love.

Jill Riley: Truth! That's very true. Gosh, now I'm mentioning the beer back. I was in another city, it was Nashville, and we asked for a beer back, and the woman went, "What?!" Like, "I don't understand what that is." I go, "Oh, that's not everywhere." Again, it's one of those things that we just understand around here. It's the common language we speak as Minnesotans. Well, it's nice to have you back.

Craig Finn: So good to be here.

Jill Riley: Yeah. The podcast is called That's How I Remember It. How many episodes are you into that thing? 

Craig Finn: That's a good question.

Jill Riley: Quite a few. Like three seasons.

Craig Finn: Three seasons. So I'd say 30 to 40. 

Jill Riley: That's incredible.

Craig Finn: Yeah, really, really, it's been a good run.

Jill Riley: You're a natural. I mean, and I think being a songwriter like in the interview chair, that it establishes this really nice rapport, I think, right away with people.

Craig Finn: Thank you, because I do get nervous for them.

Jill Riley: I'm sure you do, yeah.

Craig Finn: More so than playing shows often.

Jill Riley: Yeah. Well, if you handed me a guitar and said, "Go on the stage at the Fitz," I would be quite nervous about that. Craig Finn, of the Hold Steady, of solo music fame, and one of our favorite Minnesotans here on The Current. Craig, I appreciate you stopping by.

Craig Finn: Thanks for having me.

Songs Performed

00:00:00 Shamrock
00:05:09 Jessamine
00:08:15 Magic Marker
Song 1 is an unreleased single; song 2 is from Craig Finn's 2022 album A Legacy of Rentals, released on Positive Jams Records/Thirty Tigers; and song 3 is from Finn's 2019 solo full-length, I Need A New War, available on Partisan Records.

Musician

Craig Finn – vocals and guitar

Credits

Guest – Craig Finn
Host – Jill Riley
Producer – Nilufer Arsala
Video – Erik Stromstad
Audio – Evan Clark
Graphics – Natalia Toledo
Digital Producer – Luke Taylor

External Link

Craig Finn – official site