On Friday, Nov. 8, Gillian Welch and David Rawlings’ 10th studio album, Woodland, was nominated for a Grammy Award in the category of Best Folk Album, and the lead track, “Empty Trainload of Sky,” received a nomination for Best Americana Performance.

Woodland marks the 10th full-length studio album for the duo, who have been releasing their albums using alternating names based on “whoever was singing lead,” as Rawlings explains. With Woodland, Welch and Rawlings put both their names on it — along with the name of the studio where they not only record, but also the space they saved after it was struck by a tornado in 2020.

Back in September, while in St. Paul for two nights of concerts at the Fitzgerald Theater, Welch and Rawlings walked over to The Current where Radio Heartland host and producer Mike Pengra welcomed them, along with bassist Paul Kowert, for a studio session. After playing a selection of songs from Woodland, Welch and Rawlings stuck around for a conversation with Mike Pengra. Watch the performances above, and watch and listen to the interview in the video player below. Beneath that, you’ll find a transcript of the interview.

Interview Transcript

Mike Pengra: I am thrilled to have you guys back in the studio again. This is Gillian Welch and David Rawlings. Last time I saw you was 2017, I think, in this very same room. And I'm really excited to have you back. Thank you for coming.

David Rawlings: We're thrilled to be back.

Gillian Welch: Yeah!

Mike Pengra: And congratulations on the new record, yeah.

Gillian Welch: Thanks!

Mike Pengra: It's called Woodland. And I know you've told this story a million times already about the studio and everything, but I'd like to, I'm curious about how this all happened. The album is about the studio. It's about the life of the studio and the songs and...

David Rawlings: Yeah, when we had put together the collection of songs and were trying to see what kind of tied together a lot of the themes, both the themes in terms of arrangements, the themes in terms of what was in the writing, it felt like there was a thread that ran through it that where everything had been colored by the studio, which had been damaged in the 2020 tornado, and then we kind of were trying to get through the rebuilding of that, and also just going through a lot of what people went through in those times. And we could feel it on all the songs.

Gillian Welch: Yeah, I just, I think we were so grateful that it still existed, you know? We wanted to use it, and also maybe draw a little attention to it. You know, it is kind of an entity, you know, it has a character and a long history before us. You know, we're just part of Woodland's story. So, you know, we try to be good caretakers. And, you know, I was just so — don't know how else to say it — I was just so grateful that it hadn't been turned into rubble.

Mike Pengra: Right. As I understand, the tornado came through Nashville, tore the roof off the studio and filled it with water, basically, right? And you were out there in the middle of the night, looking for—

David Rawlings: Yeah, trying to get the gear out. I mean, this is a studio here, and, you know, a similar ceiling height here, and when, immediately thereafter, you know, the rain started sort of working through these secondary roofs. And within, you know, a few hours, it was as if it was raining pretty hard in a room like this.

Gillian Welch: But it took a while to figure out what on earth was going on. You know, it was pitch black everywhere, and we just couldn't tell what was happening, what seemed to be structurally sound, then after two more hours of torrential rain, areas we thought were safe and had been putting guitars and whatnot, then just started to collapse. So it was like a rolling, you know, disaster that just kept going!

David Rawlings: Yeah. I mean, the heart — it isn't really, I mean, it wasn't the record wasn't set out. The songs weren't written about that specifically; it was just when we were thinking about a title, it felt like after five years in one place, spending however many hours a day I was there, rebuilding stuff — you know, 14, 16, hours — it just felt like its stamp was on everything, and so we put the stamp on the front of the record.

Mike Pengra: So the tornado happened in early March of 2020, and then we had the pandemic. Did you ever feel like somebody didn't want you to release this record?

Gillian Welch: It was really a time, you know? I can't count how many times I said to people, "Well, I never thought I would live through a time like this." You know? It just felt pretty apocalyptic over there in East Nashville, where we didn't really have power back for, proper power, for a couple months, because people couldn't come work on it even. It was just those blue cop lights, the cop cars, you know, they, for a long time. It was a little bit of a nightmare world. 

Mike Pengra: How much stuff did you actually lose in the tornado?

David Rawlings: A lot less than we would have if we hadn't been there. We got really lucky. There were some places that weren't — that were going to seem like they were going to stay dry, that we were just moving stuff as fast as we could. And there were three of us on site really fast. I mean, the real difficult thing to consider is, if we'd been here or on the road anywhere, there would have been no one there, and we would have lost, you know, as opposed to losing 5 percent of stuff, we would have lost 95 percent of stuff. Because we moved everything, you know? I mean, it was breaking down, and it was just a real ... it was sort of a race against the clock, and we just kind of miraculously stayed ahead of it. I mean, we lost some mics that got wet. There are some things that didn't recover, or didn't get through the drying out of the building, just things. But, I mean, we were really lucky, all things considered. And here we have some new music, so that's great.

Mike Pengra: I'm talking with Gillian Welch and David Rawlings about their new record, Woodland, which has been out since August 23 if I'm not mistaken?

Gillian Welch: That sounds right.

Mike Pengra: Yeah? And were any of the songs already in place before the tornado?

David Rawlings: Oh, yes, some of them.

Gillian Welch: We did, yeah. "The Bells And The Birds."

David Rawlings: I mean, nothing was recorded before then, but there were songs, some pieces of these songs, and some songs go back, go back prior.

Gillian Welch: Well, and "Hashtag" obviously got started much — it's at least partially about Guy Clark amongst other things.

Mike Pengra: He passed away in 2017, I think? 2016?

Gillian Welch: That sounds right. So of course, that song got started really that week, and then just sat, you know.

Mike Pengra: You spent some time with Guy Clark.

Gillian Welch: Yeah!

Mike Pengra: Played some gigs with him, and...

Gillian Welch: Yeah, he took us out opening for him before we even had a record out.

David Rawlings: Yeah, I was looking at those dates, and they're so early, they're, you know, early 90s, and we were—

Gillian Welch: '93, '94.

David Rawlings: Yeah. I found a great marquee picture of the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco, and we were touring under both of our names: "Guy Clark," and then it has our names down there, and we'd taken a picture of it because we couldn't believe we were on a marquee! I mean, yeah, he was, we had the same booking agent, and he was fond of us. And, I mean, I think he really had that in him, the desire — and so many people around Nashville know this, young songwriters — he did mentor people, and, you know, he just took us out there and showed us the ropes.

Mike Pengra: Yeah, right, yeah.

Gillian Welch: It was really our first kind of glimpse of what life really was like out on the road as a singer-songwriter.

Mike Pengra: And to learn from Guy Clark, of all people.

Gillian Welch: Yeah!

Mike Pengra: Wow.

David Rawlings: It was wonderful. And he, you know, he'd just want to, those early people we were lucky to be around, you know, to open a couple shows for Townes Van Zandt, or to have been friends with John Hartford and play with him a bunch, or got to know Norman, I mean, Norman Blake, or, I mean, to have seen and met Vassar Clements. These are people you just hope you're going to—

Gillian Welch: Peter Rowan and Nashville Bluegrass Band, you know, Nashville—

David Rawlings: Oh, and Emmylou [Harris] and all these people, these are all the people you're just trying to live up to, you know, still, and always!

Gillian Welch: When we moved to Nashville, it was just like my record collection walking around town every day. Honestly, it was ridiculous.

More from Radio Heartland:

• Classic Americana: Norman Blake
• Classic Americana: Emmylou Harris
• Traces of Townes: Exploring Townes Van Zandt's Minnesota connections

David Rawlings: And it was a small town.

Gillian Welch: It was a small town.

Mike Pengra: And you moved there, right out of Berklee, right?

Gillian Welch: Yeah, '92.

David Rawlings: Yeah. You'd see a little pickup truck go by on the way to Compton's market, like, "Oh, Townes is going down there to buy some—"

Gillian Welch: And you knew everybody's car! You knew everybody's car, so you'd see it, "Oh, there goes Townes. Hey, man."

Mike Pengra: You all lived in a band house too, I suppose. This is the first record in quite some time with both your names on it. I don't think of it that way. I mean, I always think of all your stuff together, even the solo stuff, as being the two of you so it's...

Gillian Welch: Well, that's how we think of it, too. That's kind of why we finally went ahead and did it.

David Rawlings: I mean, thus far, we just kind of put the name on the record for whoever was singing lead.

Gillian Welch: But we really tried to split it on this, and for the first time, well, maybe not the first time, but have some proper duet songs where we're sharing lead within one song.

Mike Pengra: I think, and somebody else mentioned it in an interview that I read, but there was times when I couldn't tell who was singing lead, because your voices blend so well together.

Gillian Welch: That does happen.

Mike Pengra: And the way you guys play, I just have to say, this is from a listener, I just love the way you play together, because you highlight each other so well, you fill in the gaps, and I always picture a flock of birds, and sometimes they're going this way, and then also they go together, and then they do this ... The way you guys fill in each other's vocal lines and guitar lines, it's incredible.

David Rawlings: I mean, there's a, yeah, there's a true ... I know that whenever we're arranging things or when I'm thinking about how we put it together, there is always a visual component. Like, as soon as I see something, the way the sounds are being made, and I can just see a landscape or something, then I know we're close to where we want to be, and that should happen as soon as you start the song. I mean, if it just sounds like two guitars, you're not really...

Gillian Welch: Yeah. I feel like if it takes you to a different space, or really changes your impression of the space you're in, that something's happening, you know? We're sort of doing our job.

Mike Pengra: Wow. I am just so excited. You guys are back here, and congratulations on this new record.

Gillian Welch: Thank you.

Mike Pengra: I wish you all the best. I'm with Gillian Welch and David Rawlings. Paul Kowert was here.

David Rawlings: Yeah.

Mike Pengra: Thank you so much for coming

David Rawlings: Well, thanks for having us.

Gillian Welch: Thanks.

Gallery: Gillian Welch and David Rawlings in studio

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Songs Performed

00:00:00 Hashtag
00:03:43 Empty Trainload of Sky
00:07:10 Howdy Howdy
00:11:10 Interview with host Mike Pengra
All songs from Gillian Welch & David Rawlings’ 2024 album, Woodland, available on Acony Records.

Musicians

Gillian Welch – guitar, vocals
David Rawlings – guitar, vocals
Paul Kowert – bass 

Credits

Guests – Gillian Welch and David Rawlings
Host/Producer – Mike Pengra
Video – Josh Sauvageau
Audio – Eric Xu Romani
Camera Operators – Josh Sauvageau, Evan Clark, D’vir Rudin
Graphics – Natalia Toledo
Digital Producer – Luke Taylor

External Link

Gillian Welch and David Rawlings – official site