Jill Riley from The Current’s Morning Show had an impromptu visit by the legendary Jimmy Jam and author Andrea Swensson, where they discussed the journey of reconnecting with Cornbread Harris, the closing of Palmer’s Bar on the West Bank, and more.

Watch the interview above, or use the audio player above to listen to the interview, and find a full transcript below.

Interview Transcript

Jill Riley: Hey, I'm Jill Riley from The Current's Morning Show, and I am just over the moon excited to have a couple special guests on The Current. So, I'm going to do some introductions here, although I kind of feel like I'm with a couple guests that need no introduction. But with that said, I've got Rock and Roll Hall of Fame inductee, producer, songwriter, musician, Prince associate and one of the architects of the Minneapolis Sound, Jimmy Jam is here. And also, one of my former colleagues -- she's a music journalist, she is a podcast host, she is an author. Andrea Swensson is here. Welcome to The Current.

Andrea Swensson: Thanks for having us.

Jill Riley: Oh, it's nice to see you. This is one of those days where you wake up and you don't know how the day is gonna go, and then a couple special guests join.

Andrea Swensson: We just wander in.

Jill Riley: Yeah, exactly. It’s perfect. Hey, I want to start by talking about a really special event that happened in Minneapolis, and it was the closing celebration of the final day of Palmer's Bar on the West Bank. Just an institution for decades. And part of that legacy, and part of that institution, is a regular gig by Cornbread Harris, every Sunday. If people couldn't rely on anything in their life, they could rely on the fact that Cornbread Harris was going to be playing piano at Palmer's, and so naturally, that was a big part of the celebration at Palmer's Bar in the final day. And Jimmy, I understand that you were at Palmer's as well. Now, you know, for anyone who doesn't know and doesn't know the story, Cornbread Harris is your pops?

Jimmy Jam: Yes, he definitely is.

Jill Riley: Yeah. And so, how was the celebration? How was it going into that day and Cornbread's, not his final performance ever, but certainly final performance at Palmer's.

Jimmy Jam: Yeah. Well, first of all, it was something that I really wanted to be at when I heard, and Andrea was actually the one that said the final day is going to be the 14th or whatever. I said, "yeah, I want to be there for that." And it was really cool. And it was surreal. The place was so packed. The great thing for me was, literally, I got out the car -- I did a triple header: I went to the Lynx game, and then I went to the Vikings game.

Jill Riley: Wow!

Jimmy Jam: And then I went to see Cornbread, you know? I mean, it was a great day. But when I pulled up, I couldn't get in, they wouldn't let me in. And the bouncer said, "we're full, I can't let you in."

Jill Riley: Yeah, I understand the line was down the block.

Jimmy Jam: Literally down the block, yeah. And so, I texted Andrea, and I said, they're not letting me in. And she said, “oh okay.” And they said, this is Cornbread's son. So anyway, I got in. When you're with the book lady, you got clout. Book lady.

Andrea Swensson: “This is Cornbread's son. Oh, okay, okay,” That's the name that needed to be dropped.

Jimmy Jam: But yeah, it was great. The turnout was amazing. And really for me, the funnest moment, well before I say what I think the funnest moment is, I always try to be in my life. I try to always make sure that at any point when I stop, if there was just a snapshot of what I was doing, I was where I wanted to be with, the people I wanted to be with, and that's what that whole night was to me. I just kept thinking, and I was going to say to Andrea, she was behind me, but I was going to say to her, "thank you, I'm so glad that all of this is happening", because it just felt so beautiful to me. But the cool thing was, toward the end of the night, it got a little bit rowdy. And people had been, you know, imbibing all day, it started early. And the band at one point just kind of stopped, because people were throwing or not people, but one of the bartenders started throwing ice towards the crowd, which was messing up the horn players and stuff, and everybody just kind of stopped. And when everybody stopped, Cornbread kept playing just kind of quietly, and then as he was playing, then I think the bass player came in, and the guitar player, I looked at the drummer, and Andrea had asked me a while back if I would sit in with my dad and play drums, because I used to play drums with him back when I was 12 years old. That was my first professional gig. And I hadn't played the drums, probably since that time with my dad, but I certainly hadn't played with my dad for that period of time. And I looked at the drummer, and I kind of went like this, and he went [nodding], and I went back, and I got behind the drums and played. And so, the night ended with me doing something and us playing together in a way we hadn't played since I was 12 years old, which was just a great way and a fitting way to end the night. And probably, if the chaos hadn't happened, it probably—

Jill Riley: That wouldn't have happened.

Jimmy Jam: Yes. So there's always a reason that things happen, you know, I don't question it. I just kind of go with it, and it was pretty cool. And I didn't mess up. That was the important thing. That was the main thing. I because I knew it I didn't want Cornbread at one point to go, “man, who's messing up the beat here on the drums?” But I think it went really well. It was a lot of fun, and I'm glad I got a chance to do it and be here for that.

Jill Riley: Yeah, talk about just a full circle moment. Unplanned and full circle. What song were you playing?

Jimmy Jam: It was just, literally just a blues jam. I don't even think it was a song. Everybody just took solos and just played. Yeah, I don't even know what key, well I was on the drum, so I don't know what key they were in.

Jill Riley: But that's like, how your mind thinks.

Jimmy Jam: I don't even know. But yeah, it was just a jam. Then they started calling for a drum solo, and I was like, no, no, no, no. It was an amazing evening, and what a great institution. And I told the people that run Palmer's, I just thanked them. I said, “thank you for giving Cornbread a home.” And they were like, “no, thank Cornbread for allowing this kind of thing to happen.” So it was just yeah, full circle is the way to put it.

Jill Riley: On The Current with Jimmy Jam and author, Andrea Swensson. You know, Jimmy and Andrea, you guys really connected in your time, Andrea, that you were doing the research for this book right here, Deeper Blues: The Life, Songs and Salvation of Cornbread Harris. And I understand that the audio book version of this is out, but for anyone who hasn't heard the story, the connection that happened was pretty incredible as well. Andrea in your research, I mean, you really reconnected Jimmy Jam and Cornbread back together? I wonder if you could talk about that a little bit and what that means to both of you.

Andrea Swensson: I mean, for me, it all started in this room, when Cornbread came into The Current to play in 2017. He walked in, shuffled in, got to the piano and proceeded to just charm the pants off of me and Tom Weber who were interviewing him that day. And it just stuck with both of us of like, what a career highlight that we got to interview such a charismatic, historic person. And around that same time, Jimmy and Terry were coming home to throw all those Super Bowl shows, and I just met Cornbread, and then I got to meet Jimmy, just within a few months of each other, and had no idea that I was, four years later, going to be absolutely embroiled in their personal lives. It was just wonderful to get to know them, and to interview them both.

And then after lockdown and pandemic and unrest and all these things happening in the Twin Cities. I was in communication with Jimmy, and one day he just reached out and said, "hey, I'm actually going to be coming into town." He and Terry were going to be filming something out at Paisley Park for the Billboard Music Awards. And he said, "do you know how to get a hold of Cornbread? I'm thinking I might use this trip to try to see him." And I didn't know how long they had been estranged. I only knew that there was some kind of dynamic going on in their relationship that neither of them really ever addressed publicly. And a few days went by, I helped facilitate this meeting, kind of from a distance, over text. And then Jimmy sent me this text message, and it was a picture of him and Cornbread and Jimmy's son Max, all together, all beaming. And he said, I just wanted to say thank you. That was the first time that my dad and I had spoken in 35 years.

Jill Riley: Wow. Wow.

Andrea Swensson: And I just started bawling. I mean, I cry about everything anyways. So this, it really did me in and it started this whole journey. I just knew immediately I was like, I feel compelled to go visit Cornbread, to talk to him about this, to start really documenting his life. There's so much of it that wasn't written down or easily found. And I didn't know at the time that Jimmy would want to be involved, but he offered to do an interview with me, and then we got on a zoom, the three of us, and now we do it every Tuesday. I go to Cornbread's house, I set up my iPad, and Jimmy calls in FaceTime, zoom, and we say hello, and it's been such a tender and beautiful thing that's unfolded over four years, and it's just a story that keeps going. And Palmer's is just yet another chapter in this beautiful story. And it's been an incredible thing to witness,

Jill Riley: Yeah, and Jimmy, what has that been like, that reconnection?

Jimmy Jam: It's been beautiful. It’s one of those things I never thought would happen. But there was always, I always say, a bunch of dominoes that kind of had to fall. And there were things in place, like Andrea was saying, like when we did the Paisley Park thing for Billboard, that kind of put me in town at a certain time, that made some sense. But even before that, St. Paul Peterson, of the famous Peterson family, but of the Prince family, he did a gig with my dad, or a recording with him, and happened to just say, “hey, I'm with your dad.” And I just said, “hey, how's he doing?” He said, “oh, it sounds good. He's got a great song called “Put the World Back Together.” And we're working on that.” And I said, okay, great. And that was kind of the first little piece of it. But the interesting thing was St. Paul Peterson, when Prince fired us back in the day, St. Paul was the one that took my place. So, you want to talk about just the crazy kind of alignment that happens, that the person that replaced me in The Time, was the person that started the ball rolling with getting me back with my dad. But it was great.

And when we met that day after the Billboard Award thing, I had my son, Max, with me, which was great, and it was fun to me, because so many of the lessons and stuff that I had taught my kids came from the lessons my dad taught me, and it made me realize how much of who I am comes from him. But part of the thing for me was, my mom and dad used to fight about that my dad wanted to do music, and my mom said, “well, no, you said you were going to give up music and raise your son and work a regular job.” And I remember when he left, I just I didn't understand it at the time, but then my mom let me drop out of high school to pursue music. And somebody said to me, “do you think your mom let you drop out of high school to pursue your dreams because she didn't let your dad pursue his dreams?” And at that moment, I said, oh, wait, I gotta talk to him, because to me, I realized he had given up his career basically, to raise me so that I could have my career. And I just thought we need to rectify that. And I just thought it wasn't about apologizing, it wasn't about anything like that. I just wanted to let him know if he was carrying any sort of burden of guilt about leaving, I wanted to raise that from him. And he said, euphoric was the word he used. He said I just feel euphoric. And I don't know it's been a great thing that I never… you couldn't write the script on it, because nobody would even believe it as a story.

And then the cool thing now is to have it documented so beautifully by the book lady. It's pretty amazing and as amazing as the book is to me, I learned so much about my dad reading the book because we didn't talk about the way he grew up, and all of the things that happened in his life early, I didn't know any of that stuff. So, I learned a lot of that in the book, but now that we have the audio book version, it's even more compelling to me. I started listening to it and probably about six in the morning, I finally finished it, because I couldn't stop listening to it. But hearing the conversations that we had, and then interjected with the music and stuff and all of that, it all makes the story all come together even better than reading it. It's very cool. So, yeah, as we're living it, and as Andrea just said, and just with Palmer's the other night, yet another chapter, and I feel like we're on another chapter now, you know moving forward,  because he's still got a lot of life in him, and the Palmer's chapter is closed for him, but you know he's going to continue to play and do his thing.

Jill Riley: Well, the book is called Deeper Blues: The Life, Songs, and Salvation of Cornbread Harris by Andrea Swenson, and the audio book version is out, and you really did something special with the audio book version. It wasn't just simply a narration of an audio book, but you really incorporate the subject matter into the audio piece. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Andrea Swensson: It was so important to me from the beginning that people get a chance to hear Cornbread's voice. He has such a unique way of viewing the world and speaking, and telling stories. So I recorded everything. I recorded every interaction I had with him, including calling him on the phone. He always answers, even if it's the afternoon, "good morning, good morning!" And then I always say, "how you doing today, Cornbread?" And he says, "exquisite." So I knew all these little details, they have to be captured. I recorded every zoom call that we've ever done with Jimmy, and I really wanted to pull it together, almost more like a podcast or like an immersive experience where you are sitting next to him, and you are hearing him play his piano and tell these stories and experience this, real time reconnection with his son. I know for me, it's been such a moving experience, I wanted to give that to other people and let them see what's possible. We've heard from a lot of people that have listened to the story and read the book that it makes them rethink relationships in their own life. And that is such a powerful thing that to be able to give to people is that moment of reflection about people that they might want to reach out to. So that's what's driven me through this whole thing. It's been a total labor of love, just trying to make it as beautiful and powerful as possible so that people get to see what I've gotten to see.

Jill Riley: And, you know, I think it can be a lesson for anyone that maybe it's never too late to reconnect. It's never too late to come to an understanding. I mean, I look at some of the estrangements that happened in my own family, and it felt like it was always some kind of misunderstanding of the message, a misunderstanding of the situation. Family dynamics are very complicated. And I think what's really special about this book, and Jimmy, I think you really nailed it, is that it felt like you got to know more about your dad through the book. And as you were saying that I was thinking, wow, what would it be like to have to read a memoir about my mom's life or dad's life? And so, that's a really special thing here.

Jimmy Jam: Yeah, no, it's beautiful the way that it's done, and also the comfort level, because it was all almost like, if you remember Tuesdays with Morrie [by author Mitch Albom], that book, where it was every Tuesday, there would be this conversation that would happen, and they put it in a book form. That's what our zooms turned into. And initially it was kind of, we would try to figure out a story that we maybe are remembering in different ways, or I would remind him of something or whatever, and literally, it would just turn into just a conversation. And sometimes it would turn into a musical conversation, where he'd turn around and start playing the piano, and then I'd play a little something back to him on the piano, but all those different things and but all of those elements are all in the audio book, which is fun even for me, to hear back, because in the moment, you're not, you know, you're just in the moment as it's happening. But then to look at it and hear it back, it's like, oh, wow, that's kind of compelling, you know? So it's interesting.

Jill Riley: I'm talking with Jimmy Jam, I'm talking with Andrea Swensson. The book Deeper Blues: The Life, Songs, and Salvation of Cornbread Harris, you can read it, you can listen to the audio book. Both options are out. It sounds like the audio book is where it's at, so check it out, if you can take a listen to it. I appreciate you guys coming by The Current. And before I let you go, Jimmy, one thing that I wanted to say to you, when I found out that you were going to come in today, I wanted to say thank you. The Sly and the Family Stone documentary, Sly Lives!, there were a lot of great stories. Questlove did an incredible job with that documentary, but I gotta say the moment, and one of my favorite stories from that documentary, is the telling of sampling Sly and the Family Stone "Thank You for Letting Me Be Myself Again," for "Rhythm Nation," because my way to that song was "Rhythm Nation." I mean, there were Sly and the Family Stone songs that I had heard on the radio, but it was that beat in “Rhythm Nation” that I would later learn, which I love doing that as a music fan, to be able to trace a sample back to the original. What a great moment in that documentary. And I wonder if you could just talk a little bit before you leave, about what it was like to be asked to be part of that.

Jimmy Jam: Oh, the documentary?

Jill Riley: Yeah, the documentary.

Jimmy Jam: Oh, well, it was wonderful because I'm the biggest Sly and the Family Stone fan ever. And not only for hearing, I think “Stand!” or no, “Dance to the Music”, was probably the first Sly song that I heard, and just the way that it just affected my life back then. But also knowing Prince's love of Sly, and how influential that group was on the makeup of The Revolution, the way that Prince plays rhythm guitar. I mean, he's my favorite rhythm guitar player, but Freddie Stone was actually the rhythm player in Sly. So, all of those elements made it very cool. The interesting thing was, Questlove said, I want to interview both you and Terry, but I want to do them separately, because I want to be able to edit together the story. He was very intentional in what he did. And as we were doing it, he would play music. And the cool thing was, he would play little snippets of stuff, and go, "okay, what was this? and what were you thinking?" People here locally would remember the restaurant Figlio in Uptown, and that was the restaurant where I heard "Thank You" come over the speakers. And when I first heard it, I thought, oh yeah, I love this song. I love this song. But then I went back to whatever the conversation was. But then when it got to that little break, I was like, check please. I gotta go. I gotta go to the studio right now. And I just remember when I played it for Janet [Jackson], she just said, “is that "Rhythm Nation?" I said, "I think so. I think so." Because we knew we had the idea lyrically of what it needed to be, but we knew it needed to be an anthem, it needed to be up-tempo and all of those things. And, yeah, it just kind of came together. And one little other thing about that song was when Prince came, when we did our grand opening of our studio, which was ‘89, I remember Prince came, and we actually played him "Rhythm Nation." And I remember he ran, it was in my office, and he ran out of my office, he said, “ah!”, and he ran out of the office, because I knew it had just exploded his brain, the idea. Because I know he always thought sampling was cheating, like it's not real musicianship and all that. But when he heard that combination of stuff, I think it really changed his way of thinking, in a way. And I just remember him running out of there and just like, "ah!"

Jill Riley: He had to say, check please!

Jimmy Jam: He had to say, check please. And I think the other thing it did was, I think he felt proud of us. Because as Terry, my partner, always says, he didn't fire us, he freed us. And I think that in that moment, he went, oh yeah, these guys, they're fine. They're going to be just fine, you know. So it was cool.

Jill Riley: Excellent. Thank you so much

Jimmy Jam: Absolutely.

Jill Riley: Jimmy Jam, Andrea Swensson, thank you for coming by The Current.

Jimmy Jam: Thank you, by the way, so nice to be in the room where this all started with Cornbread.

Andrea Swensson: Yes, so many full circle moments.

Jimmy Jam: Yeah, so this is another one we get to check off today. So thank you for making that happen.

Jill Riley: You are listening to The Current.

Credits

Guests – Jimmy Jam Harris, Andrea Swensson
Host – Jill Riley
Producers – Nilufer Arsala
Digital Producer – Natalia Toledo