Founding member of The Jayhawks and Golden Smog, Gary Louris joins us for a virtual session to play songs from his second solo record, Jump For Joy which came out this month. Gary chats with Mary Lucia about navigating quarantine as an artist, how he approaches his writing and recording in his solo work, and what's in store for his projects next.

Interview Transcript

Edited for clarity and length.

MARY LUCIA: Hey guys, it's Mary Lucia with an exclusive session here on The Current, with the Cadillac of songwriters and dear friend for many years, Gary Louris. Gary! How are ya?

GARY LOURIS: I'm good. Thank you. I've never been introduced as a Cadillac, but I'll take it. What would you be then, a Lamborghini, or would you be a hybrid?

I would be an old Volvo.

The really square ones?

You got to start it with a wrench. Here we are. We've got members tuning in on their lunch hour to talk about your new record Jump For Joy, which congratulations, Gary, you're the man of quality. You never put anything out that's garbage ever.

Yeah, that's gonna change. I decided I got to start putting a lot of garbage out because I gotta get rid of this stuff. It's got to go somewhere.

Well, interestingly enough, I read that you had these songs gestating for some period of time, and how old is the oldest tune?

Well, you probably read the little thing, but 2009 I think it was the song "New Normal". And it was just a quick--you know, getting to know the digital world of recording Pro Tools. So it's kind of electronic but sloppy, but it all works in this beautiful way for that song. I love that song. I know a lot more about recording now. But I could never recapture whatever that was. So that was done in Minneapolis way back in 2009. Most of the other songs were written and recorded either in 2018, a couple songs were recorded for the Paging Mr. Proust record back in 2016, I think, is a demo. So a little bit here, a little bit there.

Well, the new record comes out on tomorrow, Friday, the fifth and you are going to perform a couple songs so why don't you play a tune and then we'll chat some more about the record and everything else.

Okay, this is probably the most unabashedly romantic song I've ever written. Dedicated to my wife Steph, and to anybody else who needs a good wedding song.

[music: "Follow" by Gary Louris]

That is Gary Louris live here for our Current Member session, "Follow" from the new record Jump For Joy. So I'm assuming Gar that you got creative during COVID with your live stream performances? How natural did it feel?

I was reluctant to start it, Mary. I don't know, I felt like everybody's doing it. And then I found I needed it. As much as maybe some people wanted to hear it from me. It was something to look forward to. I had to kind of reel it back because I wanted to do it all the time, and I found that maybe unlike Tweedy's, where he does it all the time, I needed to space it out a little bit. But I felt very natural. To this day, I still I'm doing my my Patreon page, which I will plug - patreon.com/GaryLouris. I still do them on those occasional--I'll do it on Facebook, but mostly on that. But yeah, I loved it. And just the feedback you get, any musician will tell you the feedback I was getting just got me through.

How close Did you come to losing your mind? Or did that help during the whole shut down?

I didn't because as I think a lot of musicians would tell you, or artistes, we are born isolators to begin with, of course, this all was a terrible tragedy. Not making light of it. But being an isolator kind of comes naturally to me. So it's not like I missed all those social engagements that I had, because I didn't have them. And I made a point of not having them because I don't--I like being social. But I like the alone isolation time, it's where I get a lot more done. So that--I think I weathered it better than a lot of people did, and I think a lot of artists would say the same thing.

Now, you mentioned that the song "Follow" that you had written for a specific person in mind or just the idea of love. As a songwriter, generally speaking, Gar, would you consider yourself more of a writer of fiction?

Yes, definitely. My wife will say, "Who's that song about?" And I say, "Really, you know, it wasn't about anybody in specific," or it might be a combination of people that I knew. But I'm not as autobiographical as some writers. I tend to write stream of consciousness, things happen, and maybe later I'll go, "Oh, that song's about this." And I've been working on different kinds of songs. And I do get a little more specific, but in general, the songs are kind of fill in the blank, whoever you want it to be about. Sometimes they're about me.

Yeah, well, I think if you mostly write songs that are fictitious, there's certainly a kernel of you somewhere in there. But there's also a skill you possess, which means you are able to imagine someone else's point of view, which a lot of people can't do.

I'd like to think so. I just know that there's two ways--two parts of songwriting for me is the inspired or spiritual kind of writing--something that comes from the unconscious mind and there's something that's the craftsman side. That's from the conscious mind, and that's the less fun part. But that's when you start getting more specific, but I try to get as much of the inspired side first while I can. I think that's why I don't have story songs. I don't write like a "Jack and Diane" kind of song or things like that, you know?

If only. I really feel too that there's a sensibility of, you know, I don't know how you approach writing a Gary Louris solo record, or Jayhawks record, and do you see a distinction? Or does it just feel like you just know, inherently now this is going to go on one of my records?

I'd say 99% of the time Mary, I just write, and I try to write the best song I can. Songs seem to find their own place, they find their own home. You start going, "Well, this just doesn't feel like a Jayhawks song." There have been times where it's getting close to the time of recording, I go, "I got to write some more songs that I think are for the band." That has happened but in general, I just write a song and it just finds its own place. Whether it's, you know, the same thing with the Golden Smog. Certain songs we would save your best stuff for this and use your beast b-material for something else, no. You just kind of--certain songs found their own place. I got that song "Until You Came Along" which is Golden Smog song that actually started as a Jayhawks song, it was recorded for this Sound Of Lies record, but it just didn't fit. Somehow it just worked better with the gang of goofy friends playing songs for fun, you know?

Sound Of Lies on the record is my favorite of all of your records.

We've basically been downhill since then Mary because I think we all--I'd say if you asked everybody in the band, and this was asked to me the other day from a journalist in Spain, they said, "What's your favorite Jayhawks record?" And with no hesitation we would all say Sound Of Lies.

Really?!

Yeah, I think it's just--from start to finish there's not there's not one song I would take off almost every other record we've ever made, I look back after a few years and go, "You know, those three songs? Eh, they're kinda not so good."

Well, that does segue nicely--there is a listener Tom R. who does want to know what is up with Golden Smog these days if you have an answer.

I do not. Although my wife brought it up the other day because we were scheduled to play a Golden Smog show I believe it was in First Avenue maybe or The Palace in last April. Then of course COVID happened so that was cancelled but Jeff was on board, everybody was on board. But now we haven't--now that people are kind of gearing up for makeup shows and things I don't know how available everybody is but that is something that actually was brought up yesterday and I'm going to contact people because we would like to do it again.

That would be great. Well how about you play another song? Which one do you want to do Gary?

I'm going to do a song, a kind of a sad--you know--I am kind of a master of the melancholy.

The sad bastard?

The sad bastard. Nobody ever says, "Let's go to a Gary Louris dance party." I mean that's just never been said before. It's like, "Say let's go to Nick Drake dance party." Okay, this is called "Too Late To Key" it's kind of about wondering if you're too late for you to be open to love and all that stuff. All that junk.

[music: "Too Late To Key" by Gary Louris]

You're listening to Gary Louris. It's a Current member session here, anticipating the release of Jump For Joy and we've gotten some really good questions from some of the members. Theresa wanted to know Gar, would you rate yourself as someone who's inherently comfortable on stage? Or is that something that you've had to consciously work at?

Oh, it's something that over time I've become very comfortable. After you reach a certain age, I think you say, "Oh, this is who I am, and love me or leave me." Also, you start realizing the people who are come to see you already like you, better than getting up and giving a speech, which I hear is--some people are more fearful of having to get up into public speaking than they are of death. But you know, I'm generally a shy person, I think you'll find a lot of other musicians the same way. They're kind of uncomfortable offstage, but more comfortable onstage. Although I don't feel myself, I would never consider myself an entertainer, you know? I'm not somebody jumping around--no Springsteen or Liberace, or anybody like that. I'm not a showy person, and I admire those people. But a lot of times when I watch the Grammys, I think, "What do these people do?" Because they're doing something completely different than I do. So I feel myself more. It's not my favorite part of my job, to be honest with you. I think creating is the most exciting part. But I have become more comfortable on stage than off almost.

I watched the documentary about Nina Simone and I think one of my hugest takeaways from it was that she considered herself to be in show business. And if you think of her and her career and everything she didn't stood for, it was like, really? Like, "Yeah, I'm in show business." So now whenever I have to fill out an application and it's like "occupation," it's like, "Show business." And then no one bothers to ask, "What does that mean?"

I love that. Yeah, I feel more like I'm a therapist than I am an entertainer because I feel like sometimes I make people feel better. But it's not because I'm song and dance kind of guy.

John has a question. He said, "With respect to writing - what song came really easily? And which one was really hard of yours?"

That's a good question. A lot of times the really good ones, not all the time, come really quickly. For instance, "Blue". "Blue" I did not struggle with that in the least, and that happened bang, bang, bang, of course, then you say, "Well, why didn't you write another one?" I'm like, "I tried," and see? That's the problem, I tried. I wasn't trying when I wrote--for something like "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me," which I came up with this whole part. [strums guitar] All that part, all up to the chorus super fast. And then I got stuck to the chorus. I had something that the label at the time said, "This is the single. We love this, but that chorus is kind of a letdown." So then I started writing. They said, "Well, why don't we find somebody to cowrite with you?" And I didn't really do that at the time. I said if I'm going to do that, I'm going to do it with people I know and like so I took that song to Paul Westerberg. He and I sat down and wrote a chorus. Dave Perner, Jacob Dylan, Kurt Johnson from Run Westy Run--a lot of my people I knew around there and it was really interesting to go through that process and see how each person approached the writing. Some people--I won't single them out, approach more like a classic country writer like, "What is this about? What are we trying to say here?" Other people it was just like, "What feels good?" But none of them quite clicked and I just kept trying to write chorus after chorus and it was just becoming laborious instead of inspirational. So eventually, the label got me in touch with this guy, Taylor Rhoades a professional songwriter in Nashville. And he over the phone, we kind of wrote it, he came up with something, I to this day have still not met him.

Gary, aren't you a professional songwriter?

I am! And a licensed therapist.

Well, I would think that would be an interesting tip for any producer who's got an artist that's hit a wall, it's like, first, let's exhaust the people that you know and are comfortable with and are crazy talented, then maybe I'll bring in some session person. It's a great idea.

We'll let you do your little thing, and then we'll do what we were always planning on doing anyway.

So tell me a little bit about the Patreon thing, about what that live stream is about?

Well, Patreon is a page--for people who don't know, it's a site where artists can become like a patron of the arts. So for me, you have a level of $5 a month, or you can go up to like $50 a month or anything in between really. But five is the basic and every week I put something up usually, might be a--I have a something called Deep Dive where I go into the song maybe like "All The Right Reasons" or something. Or maybe I'll talk about the writing of it and how it evolved and then maybe play a song that I stole it from and talk about that and how a songwriter--or I'll have some old archival demos up there, or maybe some old footage or video and then I'll do a concert once or twice a month. I was doing it on Facebook then I realized nobody was--most people were just not paying anything. So I said, well, you know, I'm gonna make it a little more exclusive. So it's a cool site for people to feel like they're helping an artist without breaking their bank, you know?

Yeah, let's get another tune in. We'll chat some more. What do you want to play?

Well, I was gonna do one more new song and then a Jayhawk song. But if we're running out of time?

No, we're not.

Okay. This one is off my new record. This is called--and I will say this, I want to make a public apology to the world that I'm, by the age I am, which I won't say--been in the professional musician, and licensed therapist since 1985. Actually, I was an architect before I was a musician. And I quit. I became a professional musician where I collected my paycheck from music in 1991. But let's say it's been 29 years or so. And I put two solo records out and I am ashamed. I am planning on just spewing out the garbage. I hope to put a lot more out now that I've kind of gone, "Oh, I don't need to have a big studio and hire a bunch of musicians and a producer--I can just do it myself." But this song, "Almost Home," it's the first song. It was written initially when someone approached me to do a commercial for AT&T. So the idea is that I'm far away but when I hear your voice on the phone, it's I feels like I'm home and to me. It was genius. To them it was worthless or whatever, they just didn't use it. But it stuck around. Really catchy and then I said, well I'm going to write I just had the chorus you know, because a commercial is short. So then I rewrote it. I did a song I wrote a verse and a little bridge and that's what it is now. It's about you know being far away and and missing people. Called, "Almost Home."

[music: "Almost Home" by Gary Louris]

You're listening to Gary Louris. This is a Current member session. It's all in anticipation for Gary's second solo release Jump For Joy. Got a couple of questions. I'm going to kind of paraphrase Thomas's question, who asks if you find that the digital tools complement your songwriting process? Or is it always something that you put on a song after meaning, I guess, where do you lay in the analog and digital world?

Yes, I mean, as much as I'd love to just be working with a big two inch tape machine in my room, I could don't think I could get it into the house. So the digital world is somewhat of a necessary evil. I don't fight against it as much as I have problems with being connected to devices all the time, I do enjoy the digital world. I don't think I'll ever get the sound that you get in the 70s tape. But there is a trade off and I have used the digital world as a tool for writing and not strictly to add things on top. It depends on the song. Certainly there are different platforms, software platforms, there's one called Ableton Live, which is a little bit more DJ, more movie things where you can move sections around, we won't get too much into that and Pro Tools but you know, you can also use the digital stuff just like a tape recorder. I wouldn't rely on the digital stuff to make the song, for me as a--I guess basically, a song guy. I still rely on the song standing on its own. But that is not always the case because I do love electronic music and a lot of that stuff would not sound good if you just dropped it on an acoustic guitar. So I would say it's not an evil. I don't think digital world is evil.

Lynn said, "We're from Buffalo, Minnesota, and Hollywood Town Hall was one of our stops on snowmobile poker runs. Why did you name the album Hollywood Town Hall?"

Oh, that's a good question. You know, we had spent four months out in Hollywood, it was right in the--we worked at the studio called Hollywood Sound, which was pretty famous. It was a two part--two different studios right around the corner from each other that were both Hollywood Sound. One was where Glen Campbell did a bunch of his recording. And the other one was where Graham Parsons had recorded, and The Birds and a lot of famous stuff. But it was a dumpy part of Hollywood, and we had been there for four months staying in lousy apartments. We drove back and came back, and by then it was winter. These two British guys came over from--I was gonna say from England--where else are they coming from I suppose.

Japan.

Yeah, Japan was possible. They just, you know, it was freezing cold. It was like January, I don't remember. And they said, "Let's just drive out of town and look for some stark landscape."" And we found it. We just stumbled upon that place and said Hollywood Town Hall. And I guess we're just struck by the fact that here was the exact antithesis of what of the Hollywood we had just spent, you know? And it doesn't really mean anything other than it was--we just found it incredibly strange to see because if you see the town hall, it's all there is, is this building, right in the crossroads. I think there was a baseball field kitty corner to it. And that's about it. That's all. I do remember that Rick Rubin, who is--if people know, Rick Rubin is a pretty famous producer. He was the head of our label, Def American at the time, became American. He called me and said he was just so--he thought the image of the on the front of the record, he just thought it matched the music so perfectly. And it's true. Somehow it just looks right. But it looks like we're smiling in the photo, but we're grimacing. It was so cold.

Grimacing and cold. Oh, God, I want to know. Okay, well, we have another great question here. This is great, Gary, that other people are asking questions, because you and I have talked so many times, it would just be like, "Hey, when's the last time you saw Jim Boquist?"

It's been a while.

Okay. Michael wants to know, who did the cool artwork for Jump For Joy?

Oh, I'm glad you opened that up. My son, Henry Louris.

Henry!

And you can go can totally plug him now. HenryLouris.com and I think he has something on Etsy too. Now, he just graduated summa cum laude from Boston University in Fine Arts. He's a painter, he's also a musician. I'll be sending you some of his stuff eventually Mary. So he did that, it was just like the sketch he had. Never was done, and he's not really an album art cover guy. He's like a fine arts guy. But I just loved it, you know? So thanks for asking. Yeah. HenryLouris.com

That is very cool. I want to know because--not that this is the equivalency of Patreon, but have you ever in your entire life Gary Louris busked on the street?

Yes. Once or twice. Well, we did it back--our first trip, the Jayhawks. We went out to California. The first time we went to California we drove across, we went stayed at friends. We went through Joshua Tree we recreated the cover of Joshua Tree. The album by U2, it's really good. Then we went to LA and our first shows, this was probably 1987 or something, was at the Music Machine and the Club Lingerie were our first two famous clubs in LA back then. And that first show was at the Music Machine and they had thought we were the jocks. It was reggae day, it was Bob Marley day. It's all reggae bands. And we were billed mistakenly, as The Jocks. So they put us on first gave us a bag of McDonald's and asked to go on our way. The bands were great to us. But anyway, along the way we played up in San Francisco and the band busked. There are photos of that, I'll put up on my Patreon, of us busking and I think maybe I've done it one other time maybe in front of First Avenue.

I'm constantly reminded of--you won't remember this--it was many, many, many years ago we were--I was having dinner, I think with my brother and my my pop at Black Forest and you were there and you came over to our table and the introductions went by and then when you left he was like, "So who is your friend from the Seahawks?" My Dad of course, we just let it go that, "Yes he plays for the Seahawks."

Yeah we've been called The Jaywalkers too.

So let's get another tune Gar, you're gonna do--well what are you gonna do?

I'm gonna do one because you know we didn't really get to promote the XOXO record which I found out the other day is actually--in Spanish it's kind of a female body part so it's a little bit controversial when it--you got to be careful of the translation, I found that out recently. So I guess we're like edgy, controversial now. We didn't really get to promote the XOXO record very much because of COVID so I'm gonna play a song that I know that The Current played a lot called "Bitter Pill". I'm going to just have a cheat sheet here because I haven't played it while.

[music: "Bitter Pill" by The Jayhawks]

You are watching and listening to a Current member session with the one and only Gary Louris. The record Jump For Joy which will be out everywhere tomorrow and Gar remind us again where one can stream you and join your Patreon page.

Thank you for asking www.patreon.com/GaryLouris and my website's GaryLourisMusic.com and of course we're connected with all the Jayhawks social media platforms.

Cool. Then obviously you're just going to play it by ear in terms of anything that might happen in real time in front of actual human beings.

Yeah, well, we are going to Spain, the band is going to Spain starting in early July for a couple of weeks. I might play a couple solo shows. Maybe go to a couple different countries, have some shows. We also have shows at Lake Harriet Bandshell.

Yes!

Somewhere down in Iowa in August, I'm doing a solo show at the Aster Cafe that same weekend, I don't have the dates in front of me but they're all at Jayhawks' Facebook, or JayhawksOfficial.com. So we're kind of easing our way in, we're doing a lot of makeup dates. Before all the COVID happen I decided that I wanted to tour a lot more than we had because we had kind of gone down to a trickle the last few years. So I kind of wanted to step it up a bit, so I think we're looking forward to making up for lost time as everybody is.

Yeah, absolutely. It gives everybody a little bit of hope. Thank you so much, Gary, thank you to The Current members for joining us. Jump For Joy out tomorrow. Follow Gary and tour dates to be announced. Thank you so much, have a beautiful day Gare.

Always good seeing you Mary, bye!

Songs Played

02:30 Follow
12:45 Too Late To Key
24:55 Almost Home
36:13 Bitter Pill
The first three songs appear on Gary Louris' 2021 album Jump For Joy, and "Bitter Pill" appears on The Jayhawks' 2020 record XOXO.

External Link

Gary Louris - official site