Ever since breaking through in 1993 with the hit song, “What’s Up?”, with the band 4 Non Blondes, Linda Perry has built a career as a highly respected singer-songwriter, musician and producer whose credits include working with such artists as Pink, Adele, Cheap Trick, Miley Cyrus, Gwen Stefani, Christina Aguilera, Dolly Parton and many others.

Now, Perry is the subject of a new documentary, Let It Die Here, that offers a very candid look at her life. Directed by Don Hardy, the film will be screened as the closing-night feature of the 2024 Sound Unseen Film Festival.

Perry connected with The Current’s Jill Riley to talk about the film, and to share some stories from her work in music. Listen to the interview using the audio player above, and read a transcript below.

Interview Transcript

Jill Riley: You're listening to The Current; I'm Jill Riley. The 25th anniversary of the Sound Unseen festival is coming up this month, and the closing-night film is a documentary about Linda Perry. It's called Let It Die Here. Linda Perry, known for her time with 4 Non Blondes and the megahit, "What's Up?", Linda Perry is a songwriter. She is a producer, a collaborator. Artists like Christina Aguilera, P!nk, Alicia Keys, Adele, the Los Angeles rock band Dorothy, Dolly Parton. Linda Perry is in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, and I am very pleased to have her on the line and talk to her more about this documentary. Linda, it's wonderful to meet you.

Linda Perry: Hi. Thank you. It's nice to meet you.

Jill Riley: So Linda, you have been in the industry for a long time. You've had such an impact on the artists that you've worked with, and this documentary was also just this incredible look into your personal journey, in your personal life, and your journey as a producer. I mean, it was raw, it was vulnerable. I wonder if you could just kind of start by talking about making the documentary, and really, like, where you were at at that moment. 

Linda Perry: Well, I never intended to make a documentary. First of all, I had worked on this film called Citizen Penn; it's a documentary about Sean Penn when he went to Haiti to help with the earthquake. And I had met the director, and he asked me to score the film. And I was like, "I would love to." And then me and Don [Hardy, film director] kind of became friends — kind of, you know? And then he asked me, "Hey, you're so interesting. Do you think I could just hang out at your studio a couple times and just film like a fly on the wall?" And I'm like, "Sure." And in my mind, I'm getting, like, social media content, you know? I'm like, going, "Oh, great! Well, I'm so bad at Instagram and filming stuff, could I use it to post?" And he was like, "Yeah, of course." And through the process, he just kind of started showing up more and more. And he was so quiet. I honestly really didn't notice him there. Then one day he came to me and he said, "Hey, so, you know that footage I've been shooting?" I'm like, "Yeah." And he's like, "Well, I did a 30-minute edit, and I showed it to somebody, and they want to fund it and make it a documentary." I just looked at him and I said, "Just do what you're going to do. And if I said it, I'll stand behind it, but I don't want to hear about it anymore." He just kind of laughed, and I just let him show up. And then during that time, life was just unraveling, I started kind of having a meltdown because I was getting confused. You know, I've been writing for people for so long, I'm a therapist in the studio; I take on a lot of people's emotions, and honestly, I just got lost, and I couldn't write a song to save my life for myself, but I could write for anybody in the room, no problem. But when it came to my own emotions, it's like I just got lost, and I didn't know who I was, because, you know, I'm an artist, I'm great on stage, I'm a great band leader, I'm a great producer, I'm a great mom, I'm a great this, I'm a great that, I'm all amazing powerful Oz, but at the end of the day, when you're great at so many things, it's like you become great at nothing, you know? And that's kind of what started happening to me, and some personal stuff started happening. I'm quite embarrassed by the documentary, to be honest, because it's so raw. When he showed it to me the first time, he was nervous, and the only thing I asked him to do was please do not do reenactments; if you're going to do anything, use puppets or claymation or something like that.

And so when I went to see the film for the first time, within the first five minutes, Jill, I had to displace myself. I had to, like, disconnect, so the girl on the screen was not me. And it was very, very hard. It was a hard watch. And I made some comments. I suggested a couple of things that we should do. I asked if we could film me in a rehearsal room with a band. I said, "I just need to be in a studio with a band. I'm going to put a band together, and then you come film it," and he's like, "Well, what are we filming?" I'm like, "I have no idea." And so the day before we walked in the rehearsal, I had written that song for my mom. It's called "What Lies With You." And oh, man, what a beautiful and powerful thing that was. And then the other thing I asked is, I need to go out in a desert with my daughter and just disappear and let go. And we did that, and I was really happy about how that came out.

Jill Riley: The rawest pieces of this documentary, just on a human-to-human level, I found them to be so relatable. I mean, you even talk, as a producer, you're a caretaker; as a human being, and a daughter, you're a caretaker. The musicians you work with, you are being of service to others. I was blown away by how much of yourself came into this documentary, that there was this really beautiful resolution of you finding yourself again.

Linda Perry: That is true. Like I said, you know, there's some very embarrassing moments in it, but when I did see the film, he thought I was going to remove a lot of stuff. And I said, "You know, you made a really beautiful film. I'm sure this is going to mean something to some people." And he's like, "Do you want to change anything?" And I just said, what I said, I wanted to add a couple things, but I said, "No, as much as I'd like to rip all that stuff that's unflattering and embarrassing out of there, it's kind of important, so I'm gonna leave it." And I just let him do what he wanted to do, and I wanted him to be an artist, and he saw me better than I saw myself at the time.

Jill Riley: Yeah, director Don Hardy, I really liked what he did when you were talking about the past, and the way that he used the claymation. I feel like even with the heaviness of some of the stories, it almost added this lightness at the same time. And I really enjoyed how he did that.

Linda Perry: Yeah, he did an amazing job, and the choices he made, he told a very important story that I've never seen before in a documentary. Don is brilliant, and he just made a beautiful film. That's all I can say.

Jill Riley: Well, the film is called Let It Die Here, and the the subject of the film is with me on The Current, Linda Perry. Sound Unseen closing night, that film will be screening. Don Hardy and Linda Perry will both be present at that closing-night screening at the Parkway Theater. Linda, I wonder if I could ask you, there was a moment in the film that has to do with the music that I was blown away by the story. On a personal note, when I was making the migration from cassettes to CDs, Bigger, Better, Faster, More!, that was the first album that I bought on CD, and I have just such great memories of that time and being so excited to hold that album in my hand, and just great memories of the song, "What's Up?", and how, honestly, it's such a big part of like soundtracking that time of my life.

And you told this great story, I'd like to hear more about it. It's because I feel like with the song that is just so iconic itself, really woke something up in you about your role as a songwriter and producer in the industry, that something started to change within you. And I wonder if you could talk about the significance of that song and some of the background of how that kind of set you forth on a journey to be a producer.

Linda Perry: You know, I was very green. All the other band members had been in, like, 20 to 30 bands. That was the first band I ever was in, and I had never been in a studio. But, you know, my gut, my instinct, my intuition, call it whatever you want, has been guiding me my whole life. And I'm not academic; you know, I dropped out in eighth grade. I wouldn't put myself in that area. I've only had to act on, rely on my instinct and my common sense. So when we went into the studio — and I know the song I wrote; I wrote it, so I know it — so when we're in the studio and it's being basically violated, the song, and manipulated to do other things that it didn't want to do, I had a very strong emotion about it. I protested. I put my foot down. I went to the label. Everybody was happy with the direction it was going, and I'm like, "No — this is not the song I wrote." And the producer tried to act like I had no idea what I was talking about. "Just be a singer." I know what this song is supposed to sound like; it's not supposed to sound like this. 

So I took the band, we went to Sausalito, and there was the Record Plant out there and the Plant Studios, and they were so kind to let us come in on spec and record. And I wish I remember the engineer's name [editor’s note: Mark Hensley], because he was so helpful and so gracious with his time, and patient, answering questions and showing me things. But you would have thought I'd producing for years, because I walked in that studio and I just started setting things up. He showed me what this would do, what the drums sound like. You know, "Do you like it like this?" And I'm like, "Well, can I change something?" He's like, "You can go out there and change whatever you want." And so I started moving the microphones around. I asked Dawn [Richardson] to tune her snare down; you know, all this stuff.

And then we just started recording, and we got our take, and the producer showed up, like, at one o'clock in the morning. We comped my vocal. And I was very perturbed he was there, and I didn't understand why he was there, but then I realized, because the mastering session was the next day, and so we had to get the song mixed and done, and we turned it in. The label loved it. Everybody was like, "Great." I said, "I want producer credit." They said, "No, just know that you saved the song." I took that punch, and I said, "OK." And I said to myself, "That will never, ever happen to me again." And when I got my first check, my first dollar, I started buying gear. I just started buying stuff. And then I started helping bands in San Francisco. I just started saying, "Hey, I'll pay for your demos if you let me produce them." And I just started doing that. And that's how I got my experience. I didn't go to school. I don't know a darn thing I'm doing, but I just turned knobs until it sounds good to my ear.

Jill Riley: I'm talking with Linda Perry. The documentary is called Let It Die Here, screening as part of the 25th anniversary of the Sound Unseen Festival. It's the closing-night film. Linda Perry will be in attendance with director Don Hardy. It's at the Parkway Theater. And Linda, before I let you go, I wonder what it was like to watch the documentary and hear the musicians who you have these long-term friendships and creative partnerships with, speak about you. How did it feel to hear, you know, Christina Aguilera, and you hear Brandi Carlile, and you hear our queen, Dolly Parton, speaking of you in just such beautiful ways. How did that make you feel when you were watching it?

Linda Perry: You know, I'm not a big — please know that I'm going to try to say this the best I possibly can — that stuff is great, you know, but it's not how I survive. I would have preferred there not to be anybody in there trying to talk me up, because it would have been, for me, nicer to have people have their own, sum it, up for themselves. So it's not like I need that big ego boost. 

Jill Riley: Yeah, like, you're not looking for the validation in others.

Linda Perry: Yeah, I don't need validation. I don't think I can ever accept validation. I don't even know what validation means. You know what I mean? I just try to work, live and stumble through life the best that I possibly can. The validation I needed? She died. And she died with my validation. Tthat's the only person I ever really needed something from, and now she's not here, and so I have to now just know that I'm good enough at what I do, and that's been my biggest struggle. But with that said, it's amazing that I've had such an impact on Christina and Brandi, but most of all, to hear Dolly Parton compare me to Elvis Presley and the same kind of charisma. That's pretty f****** awesome.

Jill Riley: Yeah, I would say so! That's something to be celebrated.

Linda Perry: When she said, you know, "You like to watch her. She's kind of like Elvis like that," you know, that just put the biggest smile on my face. And I was like, "OK, that's all I need, right there." But that was pretty amazing.

Jill Riley: I'm talking with Linda Perry. The documentary is called Let It Die Here. It's screening the closing night of Sound Unseen. Linda Perry will be there. Director Don Hardy will be there. And you can find more information about the upcoming festival and more about the film. I just think it was beautifully done. It was relatable on so many ways. You can go to the Sound Unseen website. Linda, you know you were talking about the person that you sought validation from, she is no longer with us, and you're referring to your mother. I was really moved by that kind of rawness, and you talking about that relationship. I don't know how long it's been — like, when you finish the film, I don't know how long it's been since she passed — but for me, it's been about 17 years since my mother passed, and I just wonder where you are. I mean, do you really feel you know at peace? Do you feel like you know the grief will come up in unexpected places? Do you feel inspired? How are you feeling now? And by the way, I'm sorry for your loss.

Linda Perry: Thank you. It was about two years ago, so it was the last thing that was — like, the film is very real time. Everything just happened. She died at the end of '22. December 20. So you know, without it sounding strange, although it doesn't matter, I have a really great relationship with her now, where I talk to her all the time. I feel her presence. There's no manipulation; there's no trickster; there's no con artist; there's no mean, abusive person. It's like, I talk to her, I go visit her gravesite. I try to get out there once a week, if not every other week, and I tell her that I love our relationship, and I smile. I have a big picture of her in my bedroom, right where she was laying for three months in her hospital bed. Right next to my bed is where I put a picture of her. It was a very emotional experience. I was able to have closure and heal myself through her sickness and her last days. I feel very free.

And when Tribeca Film Festival asked if they could premiere an exclusive for the film, and they asked me to perform, I was like, "Well, what the f*** am I going to perform? I'm not going to perform old songs." So in three weeks, I wrote an album, and it's all about my mother. It's all about me and my relationship in life and how I've not navigated myself, but mainly about her. And I'm finishing up recording it, and it's pretty amazing. It's a beautiful record, and I'm really proud of it, and I'm shocked that I was able to do it so quickly. But it just triggered as soon as they said they wanted me to perform, I just wrote an album. It was so quick. I knew exactly what I wanted to say and how to say it, and the songs are the best of all of me. All my influences are in this, and I'm really excited to finish it. And my hope is to release it when the film gets its pickup and release date, I'll release the album with it.

Jill Riley: Well, thank you for sharing that, because it's — again, for anyone who is processing grief, or making peace with the past, making peace with a parent, a friend, anyone in your life that you have a newly formed relationship with, I'm so glad you talked about that — but the way that you were able to, with those instincts, it just came to you instinctively to turn that into art. So, Linda, we look forward to hearing the new record. I'm just so glad that you're so happy with where you're at and this is—

Linda Perry: I didn't say that, Jill. Don't get crazy!

Jill Riley: No, I'm trying to — I'm willing you toward, I'm willing you toward the light. Not that light, though! Don't leave us yet. Linda Perry, Let It Die Here is the name of the film. Linda Perry, thank you so much for checking in. I wish we could talk longer, but hopefully we'll meet down the road, OK?

Linda Perry: All right. Will you be at the screening?

Jill Riley: I'm thinking so, I'm thinking so. It's Saturday, November 16 at the Parkway Theater, and and I'm hoping to make it so that I can come up and say hello.

Linda Perry: OK, great! I would love to. Thank you so much.

Jill Riley: Yeah, of course. All right, you take care.

Credits

Guest – Linda Perry
Host – Jill Riley
Producers – Nilufer Arsala, Derrick Stevens
Digital Producer – Luke Taylor

External Links

Linda Perry: Let It Die Here – official film site

Sound Unseen – Linda Perry: Let It Die Here – screening info from The Current’s Gig List

Linda Perry Studio – official site