The day after playing a show at the Fine Line in Minneapolis, Canadian singer-songwriter Kathleen Edwards visited The Current for a funny and heartfelt conversation with Morning Show host Jill Riley.

Edwards talked about her new record, Billionaire — including some Minnesota connections — and she also spoke about why she's decided to start playing early shows. "Who says I have to go on at nine or 10 o'clock at night? Nobody!” Edwards says. “So let's not do it."

Watch and listen to the interview in the player above, and find a full transcript below.

Interview Transcript

Jill Riley: You're listening to The Current. I'm Jill Riley, joined in the studio by singer-songwriter Kathleen Edwards, back in the Twin Cities. Kathleen, welcome back.

Kathleen Edwards: It's nice to be back. This is a great Twin City place. It is.

Jill Riley: We are in St. Paul now, but I understand your show was in Minneapolis. How was the show at the Fine Line?

Kathleen Edwards: It was amazing. About five songs into the show, I played a song from my first record called "Hockey Skates." The room was lit in a way where I could see a lot of faces, and there were so many people smiling. It actually made me, I had to stop singing. We kept playing, but I stopped. I had to giggle, because I was getting so much smile back that it made me smile to the point where I couldn't sing. It was very sweet. It was a really lovely show.

Jill Riley: That's a good choice for the State of Hockey, Minnesota. Did that make you homesick at all for Canada?

Kathleen Edwards: No.

Jill Riley: No. OK. Well, we're so glad to have you back in the Twin Cities. Something else that I noticed about your tour, and this was something that you had been talking about, I think on your Instagram page, is that you start early and we're gonna have you home in time to watch Golden Girls at 10 o'clock. I love early shows.

Kathleen Edwards: I thought you were gonna say you love Golden Girls.

Jill Riley: Both.

Kathleen Edwards: OK, good.

Jill Riley: Both things are true at the same time. But is that really an intentional thing that you're doing when you're on the road to play earlier shows? Because I'm on board with this.

Kathleen Edwards: I think everyone is generally on board with it. Look as everyone has heard, musical acts these days have to tour a whole lot more because we don't make money as much from the actual recorded material. That's just the reality. And so a lot of us are touring to not only build our audiences, but to also try and generate income to do this. And playing shows is incredibly rewarding. Like my show at the Fine Line. It was such a special night. It makes all the hardships of touring worthwhile when you have a night like that. But people do not want to go out two or three nights a week when they have jobs or kids or other responsibilities. Not only because no one can afford to go to an arena show anymore, unless you make one a month. And also, you can't stay out till 11 p.m. or midnight every night and then get up in the morning and be able to face the world. So who says you have to have an opening act? Who says I have to go on at 9 or 10 o'clock at night? Nobody. So let's not do it. Let's just start at 8 o'clock. Everyone can go grab dinner, come to a show, and everyone's out the door by 9:45, 10 p.m.

Jill Riley: I love that. Everyone listen now. I would love to see this catch on as more of a trend. Maybe I have seen it as more of a trend of seeing shows billed as "an evening with" or the show starting earlier. Because, like you said, Kathleen, who says that the headliner needs to go on at midnight? Somebody did it one time, and then it became this belief that rock 'n' roll is a middle of the night thing. But I think rock and roll can be a 7 p.m. kind of thing.

Kathleen Edwards: Yeah. I think the reality is, I'm having a bit of an "aha" moment. I recently stopped drinking, and I wouldn't say I had a drinking problem, but it was pervasive in my life. I realized I got to a point where I really wasn't ever going without. I'd have a glass of wine or two a night. Sometimes that'll escalate to three or four. You're like, "What am I doing? I'm just staying at home watching Fargo, do I need to have a bottle of wine? This is not necessary." And I think we are seeing a lot of times venues rely on alcohol sales as much as we rely, as musicians, on playing live to survive. And I unfortunately, think alcohol is going to more and more, in the same way that smoking has really tapered off, is something that's actually not that good for us. Maybe once in a while is great, but I think some of us just can't keep drinking all the time. And I think that in the same way going out is tethered to drinking, it doesn't necessarily need to be that way. And shifting our focus to like, "Why can't the shows be early? Why can't there be like, 10 really cool, either CBD or non-alcoholic seltzers that are really fun to drink, that don't actually have the same long-term or evening of effects on all of us so we can enjoy art more?" That's just a sliding scale. Everyone has their own preferences.

But this is part of the like, "Oh, hey, why don't we just do stuff that's actually better for us all the time?" Trust me, I still like to ruin my body with a good couple pints of Guinness every few weeks. Like, let's just do it. But on scales, maybe it's just time to live in the real world, which is not everybody wants to have five beers when they go out.

Jill Riley: Yeah, or they have obligations in the morning, or whatever it may be. Or just better health. How are you feeling, physically, mentally, cutting back alcohol? I'm curious, because I haven't had a drink in over six years, and I feel younger now than I did when I was 25 years old. I feel really good.

Kathleen Edwards: Well, good. I mean, I'm sure everyone's different. The thing that that is really changed for me is, I think alcohol really had its claws into me. Where I was always kind of planning, like, "Well, where am I going to have a good drink at 6, 7 o'clock?" And if it's, you know, like that, if I'm on tour, I'm like, "Where's the wine store? I have to make sure I get to a wine store before it closes." And now I don't feel that has that hold on me. And every time I play that game in my head where I think, like, "Well, of course I want to drink because it'll be more fun." I watched an interview with Nikki Glaser.

Jill Riley: Oh, the comedian, yes, yes.

Kathleen Edwards: And she talked about how she hadn't been drinking, and the person who was interviewing her asked her, "How did you quit drinking?" And she's like, "I didn't drink a lot. It wasn't an excessive drinker, but it sort of had this hold on me, where I always associated, like the reward part." And she said, "I read Alan Carr's book on how to stop drinking," which was originally a how to stop smoking book, and then they adapted it for alcohol. And all of the ways that you play tricks with yourself, which they go through. And you immediately are liberated from the brain game of like, "Oh, that's not true. I keep telling myself I'm going to miss out. What would life look like without drinks?" You're like, "I'm panicking thinking about that." And it's like, "don't panic." Here's 10 reasons why you don't need that. It's like, "huh."

Jill Riley: Yeah, it's kind of freeing. And by "kind of," it's definitely freeing. Talking with Kathleen Edwards at The Current. Billionaire is the new record. And Kathleen, I was looking at the credits for the album, and I noticed a couple Minnesota connections, because that's what we love doing in Minnesota.

Kathleen Edwards: Big Minnesota connection.

Jill Riley: There are a couple big ones. With the title track, I couldn't help but notice the name Dan Wilson.

Kathleen Edwards: Oh god, yes.

Jill Riley: Yes. But maybe you were thinking of another one. I wrote down a few here. It's always fun to see Dan Wilson of Semisonic, who has carved out this incredible career of co-writing and writing for a number of names. I can think of the Chicks and Chris Stapleton and—

Kathleen Edwards: Jon Batiste, Adele, right? I mean, who's heard of her?

Jill Riley: Just a couple people. But tell me about working with Dan Wilson.

Kathleen Edwards: Well, incredibly, Dan came into my life quite a few years ago. I think it was around the time that he was writing with the Chicks. He wanted to go on tour and play shows as sort of Dan Wilson solo/acoustic. And somehow he ended up, I can't believe I'm gonna say this, opening for me. He came on the tour bus with us, and it was in 2008-2009, so some time ago. He's such a lovely guy, so easy to get along with.

Of course, his big, sort of atmospheric, sort of songwriting credits with as a co-writer were just on the heels of that time that we spent together. Obviously he was already a worldwide, number-one-hit writer with Semisonic, and so we always had this tether. And years ago, when I was really struggling, around the time that I made my fourth record in 2012. I felt really quite lost in all aspects of life. And I remember reaching out to him to say, because he had really firmly planted his feet in the co-writing world. I said, "I think I'd really like to make the transition to co-writing. Do you have any ideas about how I might make that transition?" And he gave me the best advice. He said, "You will always be the best vehicle, the strongest vehicle and the most authentic vehicle for the songs that you want to write. You're already doing it. If you think that you belong in this world." He's like, "I'm not sure that you do. You are the voice of your own songs. Don't, don't sell that short." And it was sort of him saying, like, "Get out of my, don't come from my co-writes. Stay out of it." No. And it was great advice.

And then when I wrote "Billionaire," which is this song about my beautiful friend who passed away, I felt like I was so close to the song. I was worried that maybe there was a way to improve it, and so I reached out to him, and I was going to be in Los Angeles. So I went to his home, and we worked for a few hours, and he helped clear out some of the weeds on the song and make it a little cleaner and a little more true to the message. And working with him was such an honor. I love Dan. Thank you for reminding me that, of course, that's Minnesota connection.

Jill Riley: Yeah, we're talking about Dan Wilson. I'm talking with Kathleen Edwards here on The Current and talking about the title track to the new record Billionaire. Now there is a long list of credits. You really put together some great people to work on this record. You know, Jason Isbell, acting as producer, and also playing on the record. There was another name that I read in the credits that I swear I had read somewhere else. Can you tell me about Gena Johnson? Because I saw in her credits it said, Minnesota State University, Mankato. I went "Our Mankato? In Minnesota?" Please tell me about her, because it really seems like she has carved out quite a spot for herself as an engineer.

Kathleen Edwards: Well, careful. I am going to rave about this woman for way too long. How much time do we have?

Jill Riley: Bring it on. Bring it on.

Kathleen Edwards: So it's actually Gee-na G, E, N, A.

Jill Riley: Oh, OK. 

Kathleen Edwards: Yeah, we say Gena. 

Jill Riley: OK. I have a sister named Gina, so I have a Gina bias. So Gena.

Kathleen Edwards: Gena Johnson, she is a Minnesotan and she actually comes here quite a lot to visit family. She was brought into the project through Jason, of course. He met her through all of the Stapleton and the Dave Cobb production records. She worked with Dave Cobb for years. And, of course, as great engineers and people with enormous talent do, she eclipsed being an assistant, and then went on her own. One of the first projects she worked on on her own was producing and engineering and mixing a John Prine record, which she won a Grammy for. And Jason has used her as an engineer and now co-producer on many of his recent projects. And thank God he brought her, because she was the light of this project. First of all, she's gorgeous. Secondly, she's a world-class recording engineer. Producers require, when they're not actually playing instruments, there's a musicality that they either get or don't get. She's incredibly musical. She mixed the record. She elevated me, and I'm so lucky she came into my life. People messaged me, people I don't even know, saying "You're working with Gena, you are in the best hands in Nashville."

Jill Riley: That's awesome. So Gena Johnson from Minnesota, that's who we've been talking about.

Kathleen Edwards is here on The Current. Before I let you go, I would like to ask you about another project that you were part of. Could you tell me what your connection is to the Lilith Fair documentary [Lilith Fair: Building a Mystery]? Please, because I went to Lilith Fair in '99. Just the other day, I was cleaning out a closet and I found a photo of the four friends that I attended Lilith Fair with, and we're at the festival. I got really choked up looking at that photo, because we had the most amazing day. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about what your connection is.

Kathleen Edwards: Well, it's a really sweet story. In '98 I worked in Ottawa at the local Starbucks when Starbucks was still actually kind of the emerging neighborhood coffee shop, all the machines were still manual. Lilith Fair engaged a local Starbucks at every tour stop to be one of the concessions. So a flyer went around and asked if anyone wanted to work the Lilith Fair Starbucks in Ottawa that day. I put up my hand, and so off I went. I ended up watching one of my heroes, Paula Cole, soundcheck while I had my little green apron on and being a good little girl. But I was a I aspired to be a musician/songwriter. I was playing open mic nights at that point.

Fast-forward to a few months ago, I get a call. Apparently Dan Levy, who was born and raised in Toronto, Canada, his parents, Deb and Eugene Levy, were huge fans of mine. I guess my records were playing in the house when he was growing up. During some of the meetings of Lilith Fair soundtrack, all the music that's not Sarah [McLachlan], it's not Paula Cole, it's not ...

Jill Riley: Not Sheryl Crow.

Kathleen Edwards: ... to be the soundtrack to the scenes. They had something that they weren't happy with. And Dan Levy apparently kept referencing like, "It should sound like Kathleen Edwards. It should sound like Kathleen Edwards."

Someone said, "I think I know how to get in touch with Kathleen Edwards, and let's just ask her if she wants to do the project." I just referred to myself in the third person.

Jill Riley: That's OK.

Kathleen Edwards: So I got this random call, and my first question was, "Is there not already enough music in the Lilith Fair documentary? Why do I have to be involved?" So I ended up doing soundtrack work. Truly, talk about a full circle moment in my life, all the footage is of people who paved the way for me, and what an honor.

Jill Riley: That's great. Oh gosh, thank you for sharing that story. The Lilith Fair documentary, by the way, it is streaming now I think Hulu, that's where I watched it. From Lilith Fair to talking about some of the great players, and again, folks that Kathleen worked with on the new record, Billionaire. Kathleen Edwards in the studio.

Kathleen Edwards: Can we just say for one second, just dawned on me, we just talked about Gena Johnson, a recording engineer. You are sitting at the microphone of The Current. We just talked about making music, and all of these women who are in these roles. There's so many times, Lilith Fair especially, talks about, this was the state of the music business. Sometimes I think people think things haven't changed. It's like, a ton has changed. This is so great, and it's important to acknowledge those moments. Sometimes people get caught up in like, "How come I can't get my foot in the door?" It's like there is nothing keeping anyone from getting their foot in the door. You just got to go for it.

Jill Riley: Thank you for pointing that out. Right on, right on. Kathleen Edwards. 

Kathleen Edwards: How lovely.

Jill Riley: Thank you so much for coming by The Current.

Kathleen Edwards: Thank you.

Jill Riley: All right. Well, have a wonderful time on the rest of your tour. I know you've got more dates coming up in the winter. I saw you've got a destination. What is it? Puerto Rico and Dominican Republic. I saw you're doing a festival, which that looks amazing.

Kathleen Edwards: There's this amazing series of cruises, which I know some people are like, "Kill me. I'll never do that." But it's actually an amazing series that they do. They do outlaw country themes. 

Jill Riley: Oh, I've heard of that. Yep, yep.

Kathleen Edwards: Cayamo is the one I'm doing, which is a more songwriter-centric cruise. It's,seven days, six nights. You know who it's really good for? People who love music, some of whom have accessibility issues, because cruise ships are actually incredibly well-designed for people who have accessibility problems or who just want to see five shows a day. And so that's what it is. They're great. I kind of rolled my eyes the first time I heard about it. It's been a great experience. I really love them. They're expensive, but you eat when you want to eat. You rock and roll. You can sleep when you want to sleep. It's really a fun time.

Jill Riley: I hope it is quite excellent for you. And again, you've got a busy end of the year. You've got a busy New Year, and we so appreciate you coming back to the Twin Cities.

Kathleen Edwards: Listen, last night, when I played at the Fine Line, the room was full. And it's not always like that, and it's because you guys have played me for years. I'm so truly indebted to The Current for being a supporter of mine. And it was really proof last night. Seeing all those sweet people was proof that The Current has an audience, and I'm so lucky to be part of it.

Jill Riley: Oh, well, once again. Cheers. Kathleen.

Kathleen Edwards: Thank you.

Jill Riley: Thank you. You're listening to The Current.

Credits

Guest – Kathleen Edwards
Host – Jill Riley
Producer – Nilufer Arsala
Video – Erik Stromstad, Luke Taylor
Audio – Nilufer Arsala
Digital Producers – Reed Fischer, Luke Taylor

External Link

Kathleen Edwards – official site