Minneapolis multi-hyphenate artist Dessa has been busy lately — as per usual — releasing new music and playing a range of live shows. And in her spare time, Dessa has pursued a new hobby of baking and decorating cakes.

Dessa visited The Current studio recently to perform a set of songs, and afterwards, conversed with host Mac Wilson about what’s been on her mind lately. Watch and listen to the music performances above, and watch the interview below. Beneath that, find a full transcript of the interview.

Interview Transcript

Mac Wilson: Hello. I'm Mac Wilson: from The Current, and it's my privilege to welcome Dessa: to The Current studio today. Good afternoon, Dessa.

Dessa: Good afternoon. Thanks for having me.

Mac Wilson: You are a busy person. This week, released some new music and playing some shows — really exciting, unique shows this weekend. But first, let's chat about some of the music that you put out this week: the new double single of yours, "Tough Call" and "Camelot," the two songs that you released. You put them out on Election Day, and you noted that "Camelot" would fit in well with an Election Day playlist. So I'd like you to go a little bit more in depth about what was the rationale behind the timing of that and the intentionality of that.

Dessa: Yeah, you know, so I don't generally make too many, like, explicitly political songs. I think for the most part, my stuff tends to focus on, like, the intricacies of interpersonal relationships, and obviously there's a political component to that, but I've just never been very good at, like, rhyming, you know, like "caucus" ! Like, I just have never really gotten into the nitty-gritty of the political system in songwriting, usually. And that said, I think it's, for a lot of folks, feels like exceptional times. And so I knew that I wanted to write a song about the moment that we're in, politically and socially. I wrote that song, called it "Camelot." And then as we were sort of looking at the vast expanse of the calendar, I thought, you know, it'd be nice to release this song around the time that I'm doing a couple of big shows with the Minnesota Orchestra. And we went, "Oh, that's Election Day." Music traditionally released on Tuesdays or Fridays as you go. So we decided to just lean in, and release the seven-inch or the double single, yeah, on that day on Election Day in Minnesota.

Mac Wilson: The idea of Camelot going back to King Arthur and then has modern parallels, too; often that's a term used to apply to the Kennedy era in the early 1960s, to the point where I'm not sure if kids still learn about King Arthur and Camelot, or whether younger generations associate it more with Kennedy. Did you have that in mind when you were...?

Dessa: Yeah, I wasn't thinking specifically of the Kennedy dynasty as much as I was sort of, I think, a general "the city on a hill," kind of utopian conception of the sovereign ... yeah, of a place where I forget, I can't remember if this is live or not, but if so, I hope you'll snip me up. But I was thinking about it as like the kind of utopian city that that name evokes, and the daylight between the circumstances that we're living in now and the sort of promise of America that we often talk about.

Mac Wilson: So that's one of the two songs, where in the middle of the song you have the round of "Frère Jacques," and when you were recording that with your band in the studio, and then you came in to oversee the vocals in the booth while that was going on, it reminded me of the clips of Brian Wilson: where he was putting all of that together. So when you said that you're interested in the intricacies of the ways that humans communicate with each other, that's like a really intricate arrangement musically as well. So that was really cool to see that happen. 

Dessa: Oh man, I just want to end this interview now. I'm on a high note. Brian Wilson? Come on! Yeah, you know, I've loved layered vocals since I was a kid. I think I learned about music as a child listening to my mom sing along with the radio, right? So you're sort of in real time, ad libbing, adding a harmony line, adding a delay, or working up a little round phrase. And so for me, I love the interplay of lyrics, of vocal lines. And so in the end of that tune, in Camelot, when that “Frère Jacques” — with admittedly a horrible French accent on my part, it is fully Americanized French — but in that “Frère Jacques” round, I remember kind of humming that melody as I was listening to the outro of that song, going, god, does that make any sense? And then googling “Frère Jacques” and thinking, "Yeah, OK" — a call to wake up, obviously, is the literal call, but also that it had some history with sort of a resistance and rebellion, too.

Mac Wilson: I wasn't even familiar with the story behind that. That's wild!

Dessa: And admittedly, that was a convenient afterthought that then gave me post hoc license to include it and feel like I was being intentional. But yeah, that was a really fun arrangement to do. And you know, in this session, I'm singing with a bunch of mega-talented singers: Aby Wolf, Matthew Santos, Cameron Kinghorn, Aviva Jaye, and also on keys, we had Joshua Williams.

Mac Wilson: So how long have you been working with Aby in particular? You two have been joined at the hip in many ways. I'm curious exactly how far your relationship goes back now.

Dessa: I think it's like more than half my life.

Mac Wilson: OK.

Dessa: Yeah, or just right on the fulcrum there. She and I met at like an open mic in Minneapolis. I was like, "Who is this lady?" You know, at that time, like, "Who's this girl who can sing so high?" And she was so much fun to watch, and she had this beautiful kind of birdlike range. And she was just, like, super expressive. If you've ever seen Aby Wolf perform live, you know, her hands are in it, her body is in it, and her face is in it, she's just a voice made flesh. And, yeah, we kind of struck up a connection there at an open night put on by The Poetry, which was like a musical collective here many moons ago.

Mac Wilson: So before we get into your shows with the Minnesota Orchestra, a few weeks ago, you played with Jeremy Messersmith at his show with Aby Wolf as well. So that, sort of a similar aesthetic where, like, I'm guessing that Jeremy was like, sort of guiding what he wanted you to do. Or did you have any decision-making in what slant you wanted to take on it?

Dessa: Yeah, I think Jeremy is very much the captain of that Halloween ship. He puts on this show every year around Halloween, and he's always got a cast of unannounced special guests, of which I was one, and you pop in for a song.

And so this year, I did the song "Spiderwebs," by No Doubt, which has been a longtime favorite — you know, a karaoke joint of years and years ago, before I was a professional singer. I love that tune. And so, yeah, you know, hammed it up, put on the blonde wig, watched a few videos of hers to try to remember how she did that weird shoulder-roll thing, you know, and got on stage and and played. It was a lot of fun.

Mac Wilson: I think that record just turned 30.

Dessa: Did it?? Thirty?

Mac Wilson: I think Tragic Kingdom came out in fall of 1995.

Dessa: Yep, you're correct.

Mac Wilson: That's one of those.

Dessa: OK.

Mac Wilson: Yeah. I'm trying to remember, like, No Doubt they did not start off terribly successfully. It was kind of like they were sort of at a hinge point, like, whether they were going to really make it or not. And then, of course, they did. But Tragic Kingdom, it sort of fits at an interesting point in a lot of our developments.

Dessa: I agree. And like, well, if the kind of casually circulated rumors are true, I thought that album was like — I think there's 14 songs on it, 15, something — and they were asked to make, like another round of 10, another round of 10, until they produced something like 100 songs, as I understand it, before winnowing it to those best cuts. Yeah.

Mac Wilson: Wow. So we are talking about traditions with Dessa, whether it's the Jeremy Messersmith Halloween show. It's something like that, or like the New Standards Holiday Show. Are you sort of making a tradition of your own with these shows with the Minnesota Orchestra now? Because this is your second go-round working with them.

Dessa: I think it's like my fifth.

Mac Wilson: But like the second round of shows.

Dessa: I think it's my fifth.

Mac Wilson: OK.

Dessa: I think! It's either fourth or fifth.

Mac Wilson: I'm even thinking back — like, time is so warped the way, I know that you did the record with them. I'm thinking back to a couple years back where you did the shows with them. So OK, let's update that phrase: Five times with them. What's new about it this time?

Dessa: Oh, man, I think it's part of the challenge, is I really, really want those shows to feel like a thoughtful, designed event, in addition to being a concert of some familiar songs made gargantuan by the powerhouse that is the Minnesota Orchestra, and Andy Thompson does all the arrangements, and Sarah Hicks is conducting. I also want there to — yeah, to the extent that we're able — I want that to feel like it transports attendees from jump, you know? So I remember the first year that we worked together, talking about, like, "What are the other things that we could do to design this evening as an experience?", whether it was from working with a fantastic light designer to really turn the hall, to really vivify the cubes and splash light everywhere; to like, "Hey, let's do custom cocktails," shout-out Marco, that are based on the on the song selection of the evenings. So, yeah, I think for me, those shows provide the biggest opportunity that I've had to really try to build something deliberate and multi faceted where we have the resources, to be frank, to try to pull off something big. So that's like, every couple years when we've partnered, that's like, my big swing. Yeah.

Mac Wilson: We are in The Current studio talking with Dessa. You're up to a lot lately. And one thing that had slipped my attention until I was reading up for doing this interview, what's with the cakes lately? That's, that's pretty cool. That's a neat hobby to have.

Dessa: I don't know how to sell this on the radio!

Mac Wilson: You don't have to sell it! Like, one of the questions that I've sort of been falling back to, like, anybody I chat with over the last few years, I'm like, "OK, let's be honest: What are some new or unusual or weird hobbies that you've gotten into since COVID?" Or anything that you've stuck with or that you gave up. So what is the roots of the of the cakes?

Dessa: I went down the rabbit hole really, really far. It started when ... So I have a sweet tooth? Do you? I can't remember. Do you have a sweet tooth?

Mac Wilson: I do not. So that's where, like, I enjoy looking at them. I enjoy them on an artistic basis. I might eat a piece if you handed it to me.

Dessa: So what do you eat? Like, what's your thing when you're like, "Oh, I can't pass that without taking it."

Mac Wilson: It's ... The sweet tooth. It's more like gummi candies.

Dessa: Yeah.

Mac Wilson: So Halloween has been great for that, but me, it's more like, salty stuff, like potato chips. So if I see kettle chips out, like, I can't pass those up.

Dessa: I feel like a couple of people in my musical cohort are like you, and I do think that you have a moral edge. I do! I just feel like the savory people are on a higher, superior ethical plane.

Mac Wilson: I'll look at my cholesterol and get back to you on that. But all dietary stuff aside from it, like, what part of that sweet tooth then drew you to it? Or is there even a correlation?

Dessa: OK, so I have a sweet tooth. And so I'm a participant. I'm a consumer of sweet stuff and baked goods, for sure. And then my dude, he's a baker, and he made me a carrot cake, and I'm a really — it was delicious. And I'm a very competitive person. And like, half in jest, I said, "I'ma make you a cake, and it's going to be better," which is, like, the least kind way to receive a cake! I was joshing with him, you know? So we tease a lot. OK, and so then I went in and made this cake. And, you know, I think that was probably like two years ago now, and there was something that was so unexpectedly deeply satisfying — like at a mammalian DNA level, mitochondrial — about the actual process of like, when you try to get a cake's edges smooth, right? What you do is you put the cake, usually, on like a little turntable, essentially, that spins. You slowly spin the cake, and then you have a straight edge that you're holding against it, so that the frosting smooths on the sides. And then I looked online for how to decorate it, and I ended up just going down, like two years — it's been expensive, but so satisfying — of learning how to try to emulate the South Korean masters of buttercream floral frosting, which means I'm learning about, like, how flowers are built. So, like, it feels like I've gone back to school for botany to make, "So this is OK, Got it. This is a double peony. Got it. And this is where the stamen comes from." I don't know exactly why that struck a chord so profoundly deep inside me, but I am a pretty neurotic person, and so maybe just having, like, the relative silence of intellectual mind while you're focusing all of the concentration that you have on a manual task. That's been a long time for me, you know? And a long time since I felt that way about anything. And so, yeah, I think that there's been something that is just so compelling. I sketch cakes in the back of my rap notebooks. So for me, learning how to do that — yeah, the South Korean floral piping, where you try to make a flower that really looks like a flower out of frosting — has been pretty addictive.

Mac Wilson: It's all about intricacies. We're back to that phrase again. It really is. It comes up time and time again. I am one of those people where I would be afraid to do that, because we were talking about this with colleagues about, like, I have a fear of getting things wrong.

Dessa: Yeah.

Mac Wilson: Where, as a radio DJ, you go on and you sort of do your break. It's like, "Well, that's it. It's off to outer space." It is what it is. But when you're doing something like a cake, there's so much pressure in my mind that you have to get it right. I get more satisfaction of just, like, following a recipe and getting it right; like, "I've accomplished this, I followed the recipe exactly as it was supposed to be, and I got something to eat." It may not be aesthetically as exciting, but it's just interesting, the way that we can be drawn to cooking in different ways.

Dessa: See, it's interesting, because I do think there's a parallel between what you said about live radio, which freaks me out, of course, because I also have a fear of getting things wrong, more than is healthy. But if I do something privately, like, "Can I suggest to you secrecy?" Which is to say, "I will pick up something secretly, and then I'll only announce that I'm doing it after it's successful," which has been my modus operandi, but yeah, live radio freaks me out, because if you mess up, you know, there's no retakes. And so I think similarly with dinner, unless you really mess it up, like, there's no retakes, there's just dinner tomorrow, you know? There's tomorrow's show. So I think there is something about the artisan attention and craftsmanship of food that's different than the kind of craft or care or attention that we might make with, like, quilting, you know what I mean? Or painting, where you have afterward this permanent artifact, right? It's sort of, it's like a mandala, you know? You explode it a few hours after it's done.

Mac Wilson: That's perfect, because that's exactly how I thought about doing radio shows. You put it together, it's a mandala, and then it's done, and really it's just wiped out, and you get back in and you do it again the next day.

Dessa: Yeah, totally.

Mac Wilson: So it fits. We are in the current studio with Dessa. Dessa, thank you for stopping by with your band today and playing some songs.

Dessa: Thank you so much for having me.

Mac Wilson: Thank you.

Songs Performed

00:00:00 Camelot
00:02:59 Tough Call
00:05:55 Rothko

Songs 1 and 2 released as a double-sided single; song 3 appears on Dessa’s 2023 album, Bury The Lede. All are available on Doomtree Records.

Musicians

Dessa – vocals
Aby Wolf – vocals
Aviva Jaye – vocals, harp
Joshua Williams – music director, vocals, tracks, keys, sax
Cameron Kinghorn – vocals
Matthew Santos – vocals

Credits

Guest – Dessa
Host – Mac Wilson
Producer – Derrick Stevens
Video – Will Keeler
Camera Operators – Evan Clark, Will Keeler, Autumn Haeg
Audio – Eric Xu Romani
Graphics – Natalia Toledo
Digital Producer – Luke Taylor

External Link

Dessa – official site