At this point of the pandemic, especially with concerns about the contagious delta variant of COVID-19, I'm observing two camps — and I'm not the only one — those that are vaccinated, those who are not vaccinated. I don't know about you, but I'm observing some real feelings of anger and resentment toward those who have not been inoculated for whatever those reasons are.

It got me thinking about the topic of empathy. Is there room for empathy here? Can empathy help bridge rather than divide? What the heck is empathy anyway? I don't have all the answers. That's why we call an expert. Dr. Sophia Albott is an assistant professor of psychiatry with the University of Minnesota Medical School and a psychiatrist with M Physicians at the St. Louis Park clinic.

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Every Wednesday morning at 8:30 CST, Jill Riley connects with experts and local personalities for some real talk about keeping our minds and bodies healthy — from staying safe in the music scene, to exercising during a pandemic, to voting and civic engagement. Looking for more resources and support? Visit our friends at Call to Mind, MPR's initiative to foster new conversations about mental health. Subscribe to Wellness Wednesday as a podcast on Spotify, Apple, RSS, Radio Public, Stitcher, or Amazon Music.

Jill Riley: We previously talked about vaccine anxiety and vaccine shaming. Now, at this point, it seems to be more feelings of anger and frustration. You know, life was kind of getting back to normal. I know that's all relative, and that's different for different groups — but now with the delta variant and mask recommendations, it seems like vaccinated people are getting angry. Why is that, do you think?

Sophia Albott: I think this is largely reflective of what we've all kind of been through. When I last spoke with you, earlier this year, the vaccines were getting rolled out and people were anxious to get them — hoping that things were going to go back to normal. They've been rolled out now, and we were sort of on the cusp of returning to whatever the new normal is going to look like. And all of a sudden, that doesn't seem like it's happening.

So it's just been a really extensive period of time where people are under a lot of stress and having [to] operate in a survival mode. I think that that probably has a lot to do with promoting these big difficult emotions, like anger or resentment or frustration. Before the pandemic, we lived with people who had differences of opinions with us, and we were able to navigate those. But then when we sort of superimpose that on [an] extended period of time, where we've just been under a lot of stress, I think it's harder to sort of go with differences of opinion.

So how do those who are vaccinated regain some empathy for the unvaccinated, even though they don't agree with them? Like you said, before, we could disagree with people and find a way. I know "empathy" and "compassion" are words that get kind of thrown around...so really, what does that mean, to have empathy for someone?

The way that I think of empathy is to have some sense of recognition of the humanity of someone else and understanding that everyone tries to make the best decisions for themselves that they can and that may fall on a decision that is maybe not what we would agree with. So [empathy means that] we feel some sense that we understand why it is that they maybe have made the best decision that they can, even if it's different.

So I guess, if you have some understanding, it would be easier to maybe let go of some of the anger and frustration and be able to have a better conversation about it.

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. In general, I don't think that sort of casting people in a negative light or feeling intense anger and assuming their rationale is a good place to start from. That really sort of just places us back into that stress mode of, "Someone has made a bad decision, and I've made a good decision," and that there's only sort of those two choices.

It's really when we can come to sort of a less stressed place where we can see nuances and recognize that maybe people have very valid reasons for having not gotten vaccinated, or even recognizing that people sometimes make mistakes. Sort of being in that place where we can recognize those nuances is what's going to enable us to maintain a sense of connection with people — and ultimately, that is better for all of us and our mental health.

Can empathy move an unvaccinated person to change their mind about the vaccine?

I don't see why it couldn't. And I think certainly being open to talking with someone about why they've made a decision and and having that dialogue be open and being able hear what they have to say without judgment — or, you know, graciously recognizing that you just have a difference of opinion — can go a long way to helping perhaps unvaccinated people to choose to become vaccinated. If they have become infected because they chose not to get vaccinated, maybe it's going to place them in a position to advocate for the importance of vaccination to other people who also may have chosen to not be vaccinated.

On the subject of anger and frustration: those are very real feelings. Those are valid feelings, but they can be feelings that can consume oneself. Would you have any advice for those who are who are really feeling consumed by anger and frustration at this point?

Yeah. I think the reason those feelings can be so consuming is that they also help us to sort of mobilize resources. You know, when we're really angry, we feel like we can do something, or we have actions available to us versus perhaps feeling more hopeless or in despair, where we feel a little bit more powerless. I think one of the reasons that those feelings get so big is that they organize us and help us to respond.

That's true. If I'm really having a strong feeling about something, I'll get fired up. But I can also be consumed by anger, where it's like, "What is the point? I have no power here." I mean, that can lead to some other feelings that are pretty complicated. If somebody is kind of getting to that point where you start to feel hopeless, and that anger is is all-consuming, what are some things that maybe people can try to do to kind of manage those feelings?

In the moment, those feelings can be all-consuming, in part because they are organizing. The problem is that over the long term, they really aren't very constructive emotions. I don't think walking through life angry is good, for example, for our cardiovascular health. So as much as we can try to find connection and come back to a place that isn't where we don't feel like we need to be in this [stressed] position is a better thing. So [I'm a] big believer in engaging in activities that are going to promote self-care and for trying, as much as you can, to retain some sense of connection with other people. I think that connection is really going to be what is going to get us through this, and it's what's gonna enable us to sort of rebuild our lives after the pandemic, with the people that we care about. So as much as people can engage in self care as a way to sort of diffuse some of that anger. That's real. I think it's going to be better in the long run for all of us.

I like how you use the word connection, because connection and empathy really feel like they go hand in hand. I wonder if you have any kind of just final thoughts on how this pandemic is dividing us right now and how we can move forward?

Yeah, I mean, it's hard right now. I think everyone is just so tired, and we're also just so ready to be able to be with people or to start to rebuild our lives, or even to begin the process of understanding our grief about how much our lives have changed over the past year and a half. I think, really, that as much as we can, trying to counteract some of the corrosiveness of the pandemic that has forced us to be separated from people, especially if we can do things that are not going to promote more of that disconnection but really help to foster more connection is really what is going to be really vital for us to sort of move to a place post-pandemic, where we feel like life is how we want it to be.

Wellness Wednesday is hosted by Jill Riley, and produced by Christy Taylor and Jay Gabler. Our theme music is a portion of the song "F.B. One Number 2" by Christian Bjoerklund under the Non Commercial Share Alike 3.0 International License.