Andrew Broder has been a creative force in Minnesota for more than 20 years. A producer, instrumentalist, film score composer, vocalist, painter, visionary – this list goes on of titles Broder has earned as an assiduous human who thrives on creativity and collaboration. The man behind experimental soundscapes of Fog has worked with everyone from national artists like Jenny Lewis, Serengeti, Open Mike Eagle, and Bon Iver, as well local standouts Dua Saleh and FPA.

I caught up with Broder in the midst of his “stupidly busy” schedule, preparing for an upcoming North American tour with Joe Rainey, an October 3 soundtrack release for the Alan Moore-directed film The Show, and a performance/album release with Nashville songwriter Lambchop at the Walker Art Center.

In our interview, Broder discusses his latest projects. In addition, he details what compels him to create, and how it manifests into his art.

Transcript edited for clarity and length

You appeared at the Water is Life Festival not too long ago with Joe Rainey. Tell me about the experience of performing for that event.

Andrew Broder: It was a wonderful day. I didn't have the opportunity to go to last year's festival. So I was excited to get to go this year, and appreciated the invite for Joe Rainey, who I accompany live on stage performing the music that we did for his record called Niineta ... it's a cause that we support. And it was our pleasure to go and to help be a part of the awareness that's raised at that event. And there are some other musical acts that I was really excited to see as well. Beautiful day up in Duluth, and it was a real treat to see just such a nice mix of folks too, and to see Indigenous music be really represented well at something like that is important. And seems obvious, but it's still important to recognize and emphasize that that's kind of why everybody's there in the first place. And so the interaction between the crowd and these established artists, and then some new more up and coming and maybe a little more boundary-pushing Indigenous artists, it was cool. It was fun to be a part of that. I appreciated the event, for sure.

Yeah, speaking of boundary pushing with Indigenous music, your record Niineta – is that how you pronounce it?

Niineta, which means “just me.”

Just me. That's beautiful.

It's not about me (laughs). For Joe Rainey, it means that for him. That's his first solo recording.

It's been getting extremely positive reviews nationally – New York Times, Pitchfork – which is just outstanding. And the record is outstanding. It speaks for itself, of course. And I want to hear you talk about this collaboration, and what it was like making this record with Joe Rainey.

Yeah, thank you. It's been a really gratifying journey of working on this music with Joe. We got to know each other over the last few years. I met Joe at the Eaux Claires Music Festival a few years ago, and had the opportunity to go not only see him there, but then go check out what he does in some other context and went to some powwows that he was singing at and stuff like that. And just kind of got to know him not only as an artist and a performer and someone who I had shared mutual friends, but just as a friend. Got to know him as a dad and a buddy and all that stuff. And so we just kind of kept on keeping in touch after those initial meetings, and having had some jam sessions and times playing together, whether it was with this collective band Marijuana Deathsquads that I sit in with sometimes, or obviously seeing him with Bon Iver. Here and there, we would just kind of interact and had talked about working on music together. 

It took a while for it to really kind of figure out what it was going to be. Initially, Joe sent me a lot of tapes and recordings of archival work that he had done with either his drum group or other drum groups. And I was trying to find ways to add to it that I thought were useful, and at first I didn't feel useful in adding to that. I didn't think that it was necessary. I was just kind of excited about learning about what he did. And I didn't know what I could or should add to that ... I just didn't hear it as necessary musically. But I liked Joe so much, I liked seeing him perform so much, and I trusted the notion that he wanted to work together – that he wanted to work towards something, that he could use something else for what he did, because he had all these experiences collaborating with other people. Whether it's Justin Vernon or Chance the Rapper or Black Thought, he'd worked with a bunch of other people and genres already. And so he was already kind of going that way – I think he had the inclination. I can take what I've been doing my whole life, and I can put it in these different contexts. And it works. And it's cool, and it's modern, and it can speak to different audiences. So I stuck with it, even if at first I didn't feel like I was doing anything fruitful. 

But then something kind of clicked where I started approaching it a little differently, where rather than adding stuff on top of things Joe had already sent me. I said, "Let me make beats for you, let me be the drum. Your music is based on the drum." Almost like a producer would for a rapper, I just sent him beats. They weren't like beats beats, they were just like loops, or a real simple sort of repetitive rhythmic idea. And I would just send him a pile of these to work with. And what he sent back were these really beautiful, powerful melodies on top of them. That worked perfectly – it was just like, oh, okay, this is it. This is the light bulb. So then, at that point, when we had that, we just sort of had beats and melody from Joe, then I was able to kind of go back in and start building up other things around it that kind of give it that specialness, or just like, oh, this is different. Whether it's the electronics that are there, or the string parts that are there, all the things that are present, where you're not used to hearing that with powwow singing. All that stuff came from just the very basic start of like, "Here's a beat, you sing, and then let's fill it out and make it spacious and make it psychedelic and make it its own thing." 

I was there at the 7th Street Entry show. And it was so incredible just seeing the duo – the way you two seamlessly worked together and blended the sounds. And I think one of the reasons why I feel like the collaboration works so well is because, yes, they're completely different styles of music. It's Indigenous music that, yes, it goes to the drum. But I would describe your own music as a couple of things – intense and visceral. And I would describe Native chanting in that way very visceral as well. I would love to hear a little bit about your artistic process and how you conceptualize music and what really inspires it.

It differs from project to project. Nowadays, I'm finding myself working more often on sort of other people's work, or helping other people realize their songs or their ideas, and then I'm stepping in and helping add or subtract, which is a whole different thing than making my own music or writing my own songs. So there's a different approach for every project but I guess that, in a general sense, I'm attracted right now to things that are, yeah, physical in nature. In my earlier work, I spent a lot of time kind of allowing mistakes to be … Like digging for gold amongst the pile of mistakes or something like that. There's sort of an unintentional quality to it that I think when I started doing music, because I was very DIY about it and almost, not untrained, but self-trained, in a lot of ways that I was doing things that spoke to me, like a punk-rock ethos or just a very DIY ethos of letting things be messy, and letting things be human and unquantized, or all the different ways that that's allowed to happen. I think that's still present in what I do. But I think that I've gotten more focused over time and more patient over time. I think a lot of that has to do with patience. And I feel like the work that I'm doing now has a lot more patience to it than my earlier work, which I guess is probably just a function of age as well. So I think I'm more deliberate now. But also more physical now, less cerebral headphone-y bedroom in-your-own-head thing. And what I want to make now is, I want it to elicit some sort of larger, collective physical response from the listener. That's where I'm having fun at the moment.

Well, I'm such a fan. I've been hearing all the stuff that you've been doing, and all the recognition you've been getting, and I'm like, "I really got to get Broder in to The Local Show for an interview.” 

Thank you.

Yeah, of course, you're welcome. You composed the music for the 2020 film The Show, and it was directed by Alan Moore, who's directed acclaimed films such as V for Vendetta and Watchmen. And now after two years of the film's release, the soundtrack is being released. Can you walk us through that process and how you got into scoring this music for this neo-noir thriller.

I've worked with Alan Moore in the past. I did a score with a friend of mine about maybe eight or 10 years ago called Unearthing. And that was for an audio book that Alan Moore wrote and read. I made music that went behind him. That was the first time I got to work with Alan. And then I got asked to do this soundtrack for The Show, which is the first full-length screenplay that Alan Moore has written. So he wrote The Watchmen, and V for Vendetta, and From Hell, and many great things. Innovator in the world of graphic novels and imaginative literature. And he's a very cool and interesting person. So I'm very excited, always, to get to work with him. He's fascinating, and he's brilliant. 

So I got asked to do the soundtrack for this movie. And it was a really lengthy process. A lot of the delay in its release was because it was supposed to get released right around COVID time. And so it was really awful timing when it was supposed to come out, as has happened to many of my other colleagues of music in the last couple of years. And so what I ended up doing was taking what I thought were the things I liked best about the score that I did for that film, and kind of remixing them and reworking them into more just tracks that I could call it my own, and gave it a little bit more of an electronic or dance-y edge. And I have brought in some guests that I'm a really big fan of to sing some of the vocals on the songs. And so it was a really cool opportunity to work with some new people. And yeah, I guess the way I would put it would probably be music inspired by kind of a thing. It's sort of loosely connected to the film, but it kind of just ended up being my own record, which was cool. And the label that is putting it out, Lex, I've been working with them for a long time. They're a London-based label and they've put out a handful of records by me, and so they were really supportive of that idea and helping to bring it out finally. So I'm excited that it finally is arriving this fall.

I'm a fan of your collaborations with vocalists, including Jenny Lewis, Dua Saleh, Justin Vernon, Jenny Lewis, Channy Leaneagh of Poliça, the list goes on, FPA. I'm curious to know what are some of the characteristics of vocalists that you listen for that makes you want to work with them?

Hmm. I do have to like the lyrics or they have to jump out at me as at least, like, this is a compelling storyteller in some way, or a character that I find captivating, or something that pulls me in that is emotionally resonant about it. I like all different kinds of stuff. So it's not necessarily like a stylistic thing. I'm happy to work with almost anyone doing any style, but it just has to make me kind of feel something, that I want to keep going back and listening over and over. And all the people that you just mentioned definitely fall into that category of just being smart writers, great singers, and cool, interesting characters and storytellers. And it's been a really nice thing for me in the last couple years, as I said, sort of moving away from working on my own stuff so much, and getting to work more with other artists on their songs. I've really enjoyed that a lot. It's like a whole new chapter. And I feel really lucky that I've been able to open up a whole new chapter like that. Not everybody gets to do that. So I'm deeply grateful that I get to sort of be a part of these people's songs. It's cool, it's an honor. And I don't take it lightly. I want to do right by people who are trying to get a feeling out, and I want to respect that and do the best I can by it.

Yeah, they all have different styles of music, but they all just have very unique voices. They sound like nobody else.

Yeah, everyone I've worked with, I feel like in that way, has a very special quality. And that's all I really want to do. I've done enough stuff at this point where it's like, I am glad that I know what I want to hear. And I feel really confident when I like something or when I want to work with somebody, or when I gravitate towards a sound, or an artist, or a style, or anything like that. It's like I'm not second-guessing myself. There's no, like, "Do I just like this because …?" You know, there's no question about it. It's just over time, you just know what hits you. And there's no ulterior motive but that. Just like, oh, okay, this music is affecting me. And if the person making it wants me to be a part of it, that's really cool. And I want to join in and make it as good as it can be and offer whatever I have to help somebody do that.

You're also an abstract painter. I'm curious about how the process of how you make visual art may somehow be similar or different to how you process music.

It's pretty similar. It's less collaborative, obviously. It's like what I was talking about how I approached music earlier in my musical career. I feel like that's kind of where I'm at with painting. I only really started getting serious about my paintings maybe in the last four or five years – that they were worth showing people. And I'm still kind of in my head with it, and I'm only really doing it for myself. And still wrestling within myself about it, about what makes me happy and what doesn't. Where, I'm a little further along in music in that way of like, I know what I want to hear and here's how I'm going to do it ... 

I'm still kind of playing around with painting in my view, which is cool too. And it's valuable too. And it's equally valuable to feel like a novice than it is to feel like, "Oh, I'm very experienced." It's great to feel like a novice. It's frustrating. And it can feel embarrassing, or it can feel like, why am I even bothering with this. But it's also like, the newness of it is exciting. And when you nail something that you never did before, or you execute something that you didn't even know you could see, it's really a thrill.  

But the commonality between doing paintings and doing music is they're both process driven. And I have a process when making a song, or mixing a song or editing a song. And when I have a painting, I have a process. I know what the first thing I'm going to do is ... I'm going to build my canvas, and I'm going to prime it, and I'm gonna tape it off, and then I'm gonna make it. I like that with music, and I like that with paintings, both. I like having a set of, like, you're following a trail, and then there's guideposts along the trail, and each step of the process is a little guideposts that tells you where to go, the next thing you know. And it's comforting to think about it like that. And so yeah, there are similarities and differences.

Working on paintings is something that I still don't know where it's going. And I'm excited to find out where that goes. And music too, there's still a lot yet to do. But I obviously have a much longer established track record of having done it a lot already. So that's the key difference. But yeah, it's been cool to be making stuff. And when I get frustrated with music, I can bounce to paintings for a while. Or not even frustrated, things just slow down naturally, sometimes. And it's good when that happens – to be cognizant, like, "Okay, this is slowing down now. I'm gonna move to something else for a while." And it's a different discipline, and it's a different set of tools. And it's a different way to express myself. And you can kind of triangulate all these parts of your life – work, family, music – and make them help each other rather than being in opposition to each other. 

Yeah, they do. Your visual art complements your music as well. It works as great cover art. It seamlessly blends.

I hope it does. I mean, it would suck if someone looked at my paintings and just hated them. And therefore decided I'm not going to listen to this guy's music. But I like them. I do them because they're fun. And I don't have a great deal of expectation about a big art career or anything like that. It's just something new to explore. And I think we all need just to keep finding new things to explore. It keeps you excited.

I feel like you're so busy right now. Anything that you can leak or say about something that you're working on that we can look forward to coming out?

Myself and Ryan Olson of Polica, my good buddy that I work with on a million things together, Marijuana Deathsquads, etcetera, he and I produced a record called The Bible for Lambchop. Lambchop is the project of Kurt Wagner, who's a Nashville-based artist and songwriter. And he's been putting out records for a long time, for decades, on Merge. And he's one of my favorite songwriters of all time. And we've gotten to know Kurt over the last few years as well. And so we worked on this new record together called The Bible. So slowly, songs have been coming out. Over the last couple months, singles have been dropping for that, and the whole thing drops this fall. We're going to be playing songs from that record, debuting live at the Walker in September.  

I'm getting ready to do some live shows with Joe Rainey out and about in North America this fall and winter. So, rehearsing for that. I'm working on some new music with Joe. And I'm always working on other new things bubbling under the surface. And all that stuff is probably a little early to talk about. But I'm always, always busy. Insanely busy. Stupidly busy. 

It definitely seems that way.

But it's great. I would not want to have it be any other way. And, honestly, I feel very blessed. I guess if I can use that word. The last couple years, especially, were really hard on a lot of people and musicians and artists and creative folks and anyone looking for an audience really hard. It's still hard. And it's hard for touring people. It's hard for gigging musicians ... people trying to put out music at every level, it challenges so many. So I feel lucky that in the last couple of years, I've stayed busy and stayed productive, probably more busy and productive than I ever was. And that's kind of weird, because I know a lot of people who lost a lot of work and didn't have the opportunity to tour and didn't have the opportunity to do anything. I was almost the opposite, where it was like, things kicked into sort of a different gear for me in the last couple of years, which is great. I can't really explain why. But, well, I think I can explain why. And I think it goes to what I was saying about shifting my focus to it not thinking so much about myself and my work. Or thinking about selling myself as the artist or at the forefront of a project but working more with other people and taking the skill set that I have developed over a long time, and being able to put that to good use on other people's music. So, I feel really lucky for that. Just really lucky that it's kept me really busy lately, and hopefully it will keep me busy into the future still here. There's just more work to be done. And I'm just so happy I don't feel like any slowdown of any kind, even though I've been doing this for a while. There's just still more to do. And it's in a good flow.

Yeah, and there are so many artists out there working, like you said. As someone who's been in the scene for over 20 years, what would you extend to aspiring artists who also want to make a difference are really talented. What advice would you give?

That's a hard question to answer, because when I started making music and making records, the landscape didn't look anything like it does now. And so the things that somebody who's now making records that's half my age or whatever, what they're accustomed to and used to are things that I'm still not used to. So I don't know that I would have a great deal of advice for someone in that position because I myself am still kind of figuring out how to find my bearings as an artist in a very different world than the one that I came up in. Because it would sound very cynical of me to say, like, "Keep your expectations low." (Laughs) I don't want to say that to somebody – that's a terrible thing to say. It's not inspiring or cool. That's just something, you know, your uncle says, or whatever.

I don't know what advice I have to impart on newer artists. I know it's there. And I know that stuff probably does come out more than I think when I am talking to younger people that I work with. And I do like that dynamic of feeling like, okay, I have done this before. Here's what I think maybe how you could approach something. But I don't know, in terms of what's the right decision and the wrong decision to make early on for somebody. I guess, have a plan. Maybe that's the best thing I could say. Especially now. It was easier to not have a plan when I first started making records, because there was an apparatus, and an industry, and a machine that was sort of there for you. It wasn't always great. But there were mechanisms in place that you could point to say, "That's this person's job. That's this person's job. That’s this person's job." Now, that's kind of all gone. And everything sort of does fall on the artists themselves to create for themselves. And that sucks, because not everybody really wants to be their own manager, and their own publicist, and their own label, and their own TikToker ... Not everybody wants to do that. Some people do. Some people are great at it, and some people embrace it, and that's wonderful. Other people don't. So if you don't, I guess I would say try to find some positive people who you can trust around you to be your team. And that will help you navigate this world on your own because as a creative person, not just in music, but particularly in music. You are kind of on your own and in a lot of ways that you didn't use to be on your own, for better and worse ... Having a plan is good. Not bad.